The Madeleine McCann Disappearance

Schrodinger's Zebra

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I didn't know of this - will have to give it a watch, thanks.

In response to Wandering Fox - I'd start with reading Goncalo Amaral's book (the Portuguese detective) and then watch Rich Hall's videos. See what you think (both easily found on line)
As well as the above suggestions, search for a forum Completely dedicated to the case (I won't say the name; I alluded to it several posts ago). There's heaps of information in that forum, it is very well researched and there is a lot of information (facts as well as speculation) to digest on there. I will state again that I'm not affiliated with the site, don't post on it either, I'm just very impressed with it.



I'm curious - you've repeatedly posted sweeping dismissals like this, but I don't believe you've ever given a reason for your disdain. Care to elaborate? What do you think happened?
:agree:

Yes I agree... henry, don't you find anything at all strange about the case?
 

CuriousIdent

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what a load of twaddle you guys ! exploring possibilities ... incalculable consequences ... incredibly well connected ...

somebody had too much sherry in the granola this morning
To be fair... you've got to do something to improve the flavour of granola.
 

escargot

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The recent four part BBC drama The Cry deals with a couple who accidentally get medications mixed up and poison their baby, they're both aware how she died so bury the child and claim she was abducted. The pivotal ending deals with exactly which parent gave the baby the meds, I can't think of a series like it being made before Madeline's disappearance although obviously The Cry is a work of fiction.
How about a spoiler alert on this? Not everyone's seen the programme yet!
 

Swifty

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How about a spoiler alert on this? Not everyone's seen the programme yet!
I haven't given anything away yet don't worry, everything I've mentioned is the plot you have to live with alongside them from early on .. the finale remains spoiler free ..

(It's a Oh fuck .. we've accidentally killed our kid thing from the outset)
 

escargot

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I haven't given anything away yet don't worry, everything I've mentioned is the plot you have to live with alongside them from early on .. the finale remains spoiler free ..

(It's a Oh fuck .. we've accidentally killed our kid thing from the outset)
No, you've given away more or less the whole plot. I deliberately avoided learning anything before we watched it so it'd all be a surprise. A lot of people do that.
 

Swifty

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No, you've given away more or less the whole plot. I deliberately avoided learning anything before we watched it so it'd all be a surprise. A lot of people do that.
I apologise in that case if you were genuinely unaware of the subject matter of the show and were only aware of the tile of it. Other than that, you're still good to go.
 

escargot

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I apologise in that case if you were genuinely unaware of the subject matter of the show and were only aware of the tile of it. Other than that, you're still good to go.
I've seen it. My point was about not spoiling it for anyone who hasn't. That's what the 'spoiler' tag is for.
 

Cochise

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sweeping dismissals of what, the top-flight sleuthing going on here ?

i believe ive posted earlier in the thread
I wasn't talking about consequences to the McCanns or whoever else was responsible, I was talking about the consequences for the police and society in general of the very public demonstration that your place in society is pretty much the sole determinant of the way the police and the legal system will treat you.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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INT21

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Got to agree with Cochise; to an extent.

Maybe a more accurate description is that when they are busy, your position on the priority list will depend upon who you are and your postcode.

INT21.
 

Cochise

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do you really think this is true, in this case, and first-hand for yourself ?
I meant Yes to both halves of Henry's question. That is, both in this case and first hand both for myself and in my family. Although my family fought their way up from f-all, my Dad, unquestionable working class if not lower, had, through contacts he made while being a bare knuckle fighter in the 30's, had learned how to mix with - and I guess profit from - the Toffs who bet on him. He in turn taught me how to mix with all elements of society, and I've counted among my friends everyone from gang members to Government ministers. As a result I've got away with a lot.

Conversely, my son, who for whatever reason has become an inverse snob and chooses to confront the whole world from the point of view of a working class arse - a scally - has had endless trouble with the law.

I understand to some extent why the police work like that - but in an ideal world they shouldn't.
 

henry

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but how does that relate to your first hand treatment by the police ?

because that hasnt been my experience, and i dont think anyone on this page is qualified to say its at play in the mccann case, willing to hear evidence to the contrary ...
 

henry

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unless by evidence you mean 18 hours of revenue-spinning youtube folderol and vitriol ... im sure all the police need to do is sit through all of that and ... case closed !
 
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maximus otter

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...your place in society is pretty much the sole determinant of the way the police and the legal system will treat you.
No.

In a not-unreasonable parallel to the McCann case, Karen Matthews reported her daughter Shannon missing in 2008. Despite Matthews’ “place in society” being capable of summary as the dictionary definition of a nae-user:

“The West Yorkshire Police questioned 1,500 motorists[14] and searched 3,000 houses.[15] By 5 March, more than 250 officers and 60 detectives were involved in the investigation, about 10% of the West Yorkshire force's operational strength.[15] It became the largest police investigation since the Yorkshire Ripper case 30 years earlier.[2][16] Of 27 specialist victim recovery dogs in the UK, 16 were involved in the search.[17]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Shannon_Matthews

“...the 24-day hunt cost almost £3.2 million...”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/nov/12/shannonmatthews-biggest-search

Edited to add: FTMB users will obviously remember that it was Shannon's mum, and her then-current live-in sperm donor, who "kidnapped" Shannon, and drugged and imprisoned her in order to get the £50,000 reward when they subsequently "discovered" her.

maximus otter
 
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Cochise

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We are getting way off base here. My personal experience with the police has been fine, but I'm good at seeming like a reasonably well off civilised human being.

Anyhow, I was talking about _perception_, and if you have any doubt as how the police enquiry is perceived then go read the comments on any McCann related article.

I'm not sure the Shannon Matthews case is an example of good police work :) But I agree a lot of effort was put in to it, and the outcome certainly doesn't help my point :) .

Edited. Removed some irrelevancies.
 
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Schrodinger's Zebra

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but how does that relate to your first hand treatment by the police ?

because that hasnt been my experience, and i dont think anyone on this page is qualified to say its at play in the mccann case, willing to hear evidence to the contrary ...

Okay, how often does the Chancellor (and soon-to-be Prime Minister) help out with a missing person case?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6694999.stm


And from this blog https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/ (this isn't the only place I've read about what I've quoted below, I knew about this already but others including you might not be aware):

British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.

This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody.

If all this isn't special treatment, I don't know what is. :meh:




unless by evidence you mean 18 hours of revenue-spinning youtube folderol and vitriol ... im sure all the police need to do is sit through all of that and ... case closed !
This is way more than just YouTube videos.
 
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henry

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if you have any doubt as how the police enquiry is perceived then go read the comments on any McCann related article
id rather not, and anyway you dont have to, you dont have to look further than this thread in fact for unlettered spite, before or since the cull !

its a sad by-product, or rather product, of our times and attitudes, and too much of youtube crap rammed down our throats
 

mikfez

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I really don’t blame her.

Mum of Charlene Downes hits out at extra cash given to Madeleine McCann search
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/mum-...ash-given-to-madeleine-mccann-search-8141304/
Mrs Downes added: [Madeleine] didn’t even go missing in this country – it’s really a matter for the Portuguese police, and yet the money just keeps on rolling in for the search.’
Strikes me that it's a good excuse for a few police officers to spend a few weeks in Spain.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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Mrs Downes added: [Madeleine] didn’t even go missing in this country – it’s really a matter for the Portuguese police, and yet the money just keeps on rolling in for the search.’
Strikes me that it's a good excuse for a few police officers to spend a few weeks in Spain.
Or even Portugal :) but yes, very good point. Mind you I don't know what the police do with their 6-monthly money (doesn't appear to be much, does it).

Reading that article again I note the extremely tenuous link they seem to have put in (typical of the British media whenever the McCann case is mentioned):
Her daughter vanished in Blackpool on November 1, 2003, and although new CCTV was issued last year there has been no trace of Charlene.

It is feared that her body was chopped up and used in kebabs in the Lancashire town, but two takeaway workers were acquitted of murder in 2007 – at the time Maddie went missing.
... why is it even necessary to mention anything about Maddie in this context? :roll: It's almost as if Maddie still has to take precedence over whatever other missing child (in this case, Charlene) is being talked about.

These are the sort of parents I mentioned in an earlier post, though - ones who have missing children who are equally as important as Madeleine McCann but yet who seem to get very little, if any, help. It's very sad and I think they deserve more.
 

escargot

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These are the sort of parents I mentioned in an earlier post, though - ones who have missing children who are equally as important as Madeleine McCann but yet who seem to get very little, if any, help. It's very sad and I think they deserve more.
You're right. The reason the media give more attention to some missing children than to others is the infamous 'missing white woman syndrome ' which has been discussed in this thread.

Madeleine McCann fitted the bill perfectly, being very young, middle class, legitimate, blonde and so on. Charlene Downes - 13, working class, getting into bad company - didn't.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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You're right. The reason the media give more attention to some missing children than to others is the infamous 'missing white woman syndrome ' which has been discussed in this thread.

Madeleine McCann fitted the bill perfectly, being very young, middle class, legitimate, blonde and so on. Charlene Downes - 13, working class, getting into bad company - didn't.
I personally (in my humble opinion, just my views, don't sue me, etc. etc.) think that in the Madeleine McCann case there is more than just the 'white woman syndrome' going on (e.g. the high-up connections, etc, I won't go into it all) - but yes, as far as the media are concerned at any rate, Maddie is going to tug at more heart-strings from the sheep public than others (like Charlene) would.

(Sadly, I hadn't even heard of Charlene until this linked article and I'm probably not the only one to say that).
 

maximus otter

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You're right. The reason the media give more attention to some missing children than to others is the infamous 'missing white woman syndrome ' which has been discussed in this thread.

Madeleine McCann fitted the bill perfectly, being very young, middle class, legitimate, blonde and so on. Charlene Downes - 13, working class, getting into bad company - didn't.
It's a lot easier to feel sympathy for an innocent child betrayed, than for a teenaged Welfare State product who chose to "push forks repeatedly into plug sockets", tolerated if not abetted by some crap parenting and a PC unwillingness to look into grooming gangs.

A brief scan of reports into the Charlene case suggests strongly that the authorities know exactly what happened to her. However, knowing and being able to prove are two very different things.

Reducing these matters to a simplistic Procrustean "class, innit?" issue helps nobody.

maximus otter
 
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