The Madeleine McCann Disappearance

[Brown_Forever]

Julia: You didn't really think I was being serious back there, did you?


McAvennie: Well said, sir. That edition of The Scum almost put me off my Singapore Chow Mein (no mean feat in itself), with its "How dare the dirty foreigners accuse clean, decent, British people from the professional classes of anything" attitude that pervaded it.

The same hypocritical bastards that were baying for Robert Murat's head on a plate not so long ago, as I recall.

As you, and others before, have said here, if the McCann's hadn't been attractive professional types from England, then the tabloid treatment of this case would have been rather different.

The McCanns are now back in Blighty. Even though (as I understand it) if you have Arguido status, you are required to report to the police every five days (?).

Strange, that, allowing suspects leave the country during an ongoing investigation with (seemingly) no requirement that they return, but then it's been a very strange week as far as this whole case has been concerned.

With respect to Kate McCann's claim that the Portuguese police are trying to frame them, I would suggest that if a "fit up" had been, or was being contemplated in the interests of closing the case, then Robert Murat would have been a much easier proposition.

But there you go.

PB

 

[Kondoru]

It certainly seems a bit odd, doesnt it?

 

[JuliaM2]

"Julia: You didn't really think I was being serious back there, did you? "

Without sacrasm tags, it's hard to tell

And there has been so much of the 'The Portuguese are fitteng them up!' on t'Interwebs, you don't know who is serious, or ironic!

"The same hypocritical bastards that were baying for Robert Murat's head on a plate not so long ago, as I recall."

Indeed. When he had arguido status, the press were relentless in their muckraking. Now, it's 'well, it's just so they can ask more questions!'

"if the McCann's hadn't been attractive professional types from England, then the tabloid treatment of this case would have been rather different. "

Certainly would, but then, that's what you hire Clarence Mitchell for - his contacts

 

[Mob1138]

As you, and others before, have said here, if the McCann's hadn't been attractive professional types from England, then the tabloid treatment of this case would have been rather different.

The father is Scottish.

The McCanns are now back in Blighty. Even though (as I understand it) if you have Arguido status, you are required to report to the police every five days (?).

Strange, that, allowing suspects leave the country during an ongoing investigation with (seemingly) no requirement that they return, but then it's been a very strange week as far as this whole case has been concerned.

I believe they have to report back to Portugal at some point in the next ten days. However they've went and made a huge PR cock up by legging it from Portugal as soon as they're both charged as suspects. It is easier to play up the 'it's just those pesky incompetant dagos looking to blame fine, upstanding Brits' angle from the UK, rather than under the microscope of an increasingly negative & hostile international press in Portugal.

 

[jefflovestone]

Could posters please remember to concentrate only on the reported facts of this story and to keep any undue speculation to themselves. Thanks.

You'll never take me alive, copper!

 

[Anonymous]

"Let 'im 'ave it jefflovestone!"

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, the Portuguese must be really pissed off by now with all this negative attention. And maybe, just maybe, the Portuguese authorities know that all this stuff is killing their lively incomes! And maybe, just maybe, "they've" told the pair of them that 'enough is enough now'. And to just go away and take the whole world media away with them! They'll still look for the child, but just go away!

 

[Quake42]

A few thoughts, which hopefully don't stray into potentially libellous territory. I've read about the case extensively in the weekend papers and there seem to be a vast number of things which just don't add up - not all of which incriminate the parents,

1. Madeleine was collected from a creche at about 6pm and the parents joined their friends for dinner at about 8.30. That's not a great deal of time to kill a child, hide the body and other evidence and compose oneself to appear normal in a social situation. Indeed, I'm not sure anyone who was not a psychopath could do so. So this alone makes it unlikely, IMO, that the parents were responsible.

2. Leaving aside the appropriateness or otherwise of leaving very young children alone at night, why didn't they lock the apartment door? I find this bizarre.

3. The holiday complex provided a babysitting service. Why didn't the McCanns use it? I would be particularly interested as to whether they had used it on other occasions - did they just decide to leave the children alone that night for whatever reason? Or were they leaving them every night?

4. When Madeleine was discovered missing, Kate McCann was reported as saying "They've taken her, they've taken her". Even in a situation of great panic, this seems an odd thing to say. Who are "they"?

5. What relevance, if any, is Robert Murat to the investigation? Was he a suspect solely on the grounds of being a bit odd and hanging around the police rather too much? I think I remember suggestions at the time that he knew the McCanns or their friends. It seems he also had telephone contact at around midnight the evening Madeleine disappeared with a Russian expat who he then claimed not to know. The police took him seriously enough as a suspect to search the property very thorougly and drain his pool. Were they just fishing or is there something more there?

6. Hypothetically, if the parents were responsible, how could they have hidden a body for over three weeks in a hot climate and then manage to smuggle it away with the glare of the world's media on them?

7. If an intruder took Madeleine, why didn't the twins wake up? Why didn't they subsequently wake up even through the commotion when she was discovered missing?


None of it makes any sense whatsoever. I wonder if there will ever be any conclusion to this case or whether the McCanns will end up living under suspicion for ever more, a dreadful thing if they are innocent.

 

[jefflovestone]

A few thoughts, which hopefully don't stray into potentially libellous territory. I've read about the case extensively in the weekend papers and there seem to be a vast number of things which just don't add up - not all of which incriminate the parents,

1. Madeleine was collected from a creche at about 6pm and the parents joined their friends for dinner at about 8.30. That's not a great deal of time to kill a child, hide the body and other evidence and compose oneself to appear normal in a social situation. Indeed, I'm not sure anyone who was not a psychopath could do so. So this alone makes it unlikely, IMO, that the parents were responsible.

What's worth remembering is that quite often murderers don't always have to "compose oneself to appear normal in a social situation". The act of killing and disposal often appears to be pretty mundane and day-to-day.

2. Leaving aside the appropriateness or otherwise of leaving very young children alone at night, why didn't they lock the apartment door? I find this bizarre.

Yep, super-bizarre.

3. The holiday complex provided a babysitting service. Why didn't the McCanns use it? I would be particularly interested as to whether they had used it on other occasions - did they just decide to leave the children alone that night for whatever reason? Or were they leaving them every night?

If I remember correctly, apparently, bar staff reported that the McCann's were out every night.

4. When Madeleine was discovered missing, Kate McCann was reported as saying "They've taken her, they've taken her". Even in a situation of great panic, this seems an odd thing to say. Who are "they"?

5. What relevance, if any, is Robert Murat to the investigation? Was he a suspect solely on the grounds of being a bit odd and hanging around the police rather too much? I think I remember suggestions at the time that he knew the McCanns or their friends. It seems he also had telephone contact at around midnight the evening Madeleine disappeared with a Russian expat who he then claimed not to know. The police took him seriously enough as a suspect to search the property very thorougly and drain his pool. Were they just fishing or is there something more there?

I'm wondering whether this was partly due to 'Barry Bulsara-syndrome' and maybe a ruse or bluff in order for another suspect or suspects to drop their guard.

6. Hypothetically, if the parents were responsible, how could they have hidden a body for over three weeks in a hot climate and then manage to smuggle it away with the glare of the world's media on them?

In the very early reports of the story, weren't there roadworks very close to the apartment that were filled in the morning after the girl was reported missing?

7. If an intruder took Madeleine, why didn't the twins wake up? Why didn't they subsequently wake up even through the commotion when she was discovered missing?

I've already made a suggestion as to a possibility elsewhere. I won't repeat it.

None of it makes any sense whatsoever. I wonder if there will ever be any conclusion to this case or whether the McCanns will end up living under suspicion for ever more, a dreadful thing if they are innocent.

I know it's just word association pulling the levers of my mind, but for the last few hours I've been thinking alien abduction. Can you imagine if alien contact was ever confirmed and aliens admitted to seemingly random abductions and many high-profile cases of people missing and suspected murdered were actually alien-related. How messed-up would that be?

 

[rynner2]

I know it's just word association pulling the levers of my mind, but for the last few hours I've been thinking alien abduction. Can you imagine if alien contact was ever confirmed and aliens admitted to seemingly random abductions and many high-profile cases of people missing and suspected murdered were actually alien-related. How messed-up would that be?

Well, this is the FTMB, after all... :?

 

[Quake42]

I know it's just word association pulling the levers of my mind, but for the last few hours I've been thinking alien abduction. Can you imagine if alien contact was ever confirmed and aliens admitted to seemingly random abductions and many high-profile cases of people missing and suspected murdered were actually alien-related. How messed-up would that be?

I'm glad you said it... I was thinking yesterday that the case it reminds me most of was the disappearance of Fox Mulder's little sister...

 

[Quake42]

If I remember correctly, apparently, bar staff reported that the McCann's were out every night.

Yes, I read that too... my point was whether they used the babysitting service on other nights or whether the kids were left alone all the time.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Of course it has to be aliens...once you've ruled out every other tried and tested line of enquiry, the OTHER possibility must be true.

I bet the faeries are glad they're not geting this one pinned on them.

A BIG Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. :?

 

[jefflovestone]

Well let us just say that alien abductions were real - alien contact had been confirmed and they'd admitted to it. Statistically this would have to include at least some high-profile cases 'missing, suspected murdered' cases, wouldn't it?

 

[Analogue Boy]

Well let us just say that alien abductions were real - alien contact had been confirmed and they'd admitted to it. Statistically this would have to include at least some high-profile cases 'missing, suspected murdered' cases, wouldn't it?

And would put a much-needed new slant on the Jack the Ripper Investigation too.

 

[jefflovestone]

Well let us just say that alien abductions were real - alien contact had been confirmed and they'd admitted to it. Statistically this would have to include at least some high-profile cases 'missing, suspected murdered' cases, wouldn't it?

And would put a much-needed new slant on the Jack the Ripper Investigation too.

Which would also open the door for the 'hoaxed morgue pictures' debunkers.

Disclaimer: I wasn't being particularly serious about the aliens, but it's getting to the point where the weirdness is stacking up.

 

[Diabolik8]

If I remember correctly, apparently, bar staff reported that the McCann's were out every night.

Yes, I read that too... my point was whether they used the babysitting service on other nights or whether the kids were left alone all the time.

I think you're onto something there Quake - If the 'parents' (using the term loosly considering) left their children every night, it's easy to imagine a scenario where some sicko's taking note & spotting an opportunity.

Jesus f**king Christ.

 

[escargot]

I hadn't heard about the roadworks before. Wonder if they've been dug up again?

 

[Quake42]

I think you're onto something there Quake - If the 'parents' (using the term loosly considering) left their children every night, it's easy to imagine a scenario where some sicko's taking note & spotting an opportunity.

Quite. And conversely, if the parents used a babysitter every night but for some reason chose not to on this one occasion, I suspect you would draw a different conclusion.

I'm a bit surprised no one seems to have reported on this.

 

[jefflovestone]

I hadn't heard about the roadworks before. Wonder if they've been dug up again?

I don't know. You'd expect so, but I don't think it's really been mentioned again since the first week.

Quite. And conversely, if the parents used a babysitter every night but for some reason chose not to on this one occasion, I suspect you would draw a different conclusion.

I'm a bit surprised no one seems to have reported on this.

I think the reporting of the case took several tones or phases in the past and generally anything that attempted to pour suspicion or scorn on the McCanns took a back seat to other factors: 'bumbling Johnny Foreigner', 'twisted loner who was too friendly with his mum', etc.

 

[jefflovestone]

MADELEINE: 'WE CAN PROVE PARENTS DID IT'

THE parents of Madeleine McCann flew back to Britain yesterday as Portuguese police said: “We have enough evidence to convict you.”

They made their confidence clear as Kate and Gerry McCann dramatically returned home with two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.

The couple left the Algarve just two days after they were named as official suspects in the disappearance of their elder daughter. Detectives now expect to receive further forensic evidence gathered from the McCanns’ ground-floor apartment at the Ocean Club complex today or tomorrow.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/18738

An almost Cluedo-esque headline.

 

[Peripart]

MADELEINE: 'WE CAN PROVE PARENTS DID IT'

An almost Cluedo-esque headline.

I read that as "Clouseau-esque" initially, which kind of summed up for me the near-farcical turns this tale is taking.

In fact, the headline has come from

A source close to the Policia Judiciaria said they were expecting the results from the latest batch of tests to clinch their case against the couple

so the police have not publicly said anything of the kind.

As for the previous poster's query about aguidos having to report to the Portuguese police every 5 days, the story referred to above seems to suggest that they have to be able to report at 5 days' notice, which is slightly different.

 

[Kondoru]

Quake has a point, however bizzare

what exactly does happen to all those people young and old who dissapear without a trace?

 

[Xanatico]

Well, some are later found to have started another life elsewhere. Others probably just get killed.

 

[GNC]

Missing Persons thread:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... ng+persons

 

[crunchy5]

Icbw but the McCann's are apparently getting the same legal team that represented General pinochet, so that's some legal advice and it raises some interesting questions about the wealth and connections of their family, are they perhaps members of the "elite".

 

[JuliaM2]

the McCann's are apparently getting the same legal team that represented General pinochet, so that's some legal advice

Well, one of them is the same lawyer who recently defended Chris Langham on child porn charges, and that didn't go so well....

 

[Brown_Forever]

the McCann's are apparently getting the same legal team that represented General pinochet, so that's some legal advice

Well, one of them is the same lawyer who recently defended Chris Langham on child porn charges, and that didn't go so well....

True, but at least he managed to stop Langham getting deported to Chile

PB

 

[stu neville]

Once again, this thread seems to be taking a turn for the worse. Dragging in completely unrelated cases (save for the legal team) isn't helping. It's a delicate subject, not least because it's not only still sub-judice, the McCanns haven't even been charged with anything at the time of writing. It's certainly a legit subject for discussion, but one which has to be treated with, at least for the time being, a bit of thought and consideration.

OK?

 

[rynner2]

OK? OK. Here is a meta-meta-report:

September 10, 2007
The media scrum on media scrums

This morning Barney Choudhary reported for the Today programme from the McCann's home village of Rothley in Leicestershire.

His story? The extraordinary number of journalists that have descended on Rothley. Like, er, him for instance.

His interview subject? A man who has come to Rothley from Belgium to make a TV documentary about... the extraordinary number of journalists that have descended on Rothley.

You couldn't make it up.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/ ... ng-ba.html

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