The Navajo Skinwalker & 'Skinwalker Ranch'

[eburacum]

I have managed to get stills showing the temperature inversion that developed in about 10 seconds at Homestead 2. The infrared camera shows heat as red, cold as blue. I know of no ordinary mechanism that could produce an anomalous inversion in a small area, let alone that rapidly.

Thanks! That is interesting. 10 seconds is fast - assuming this sequence really was recorded in 10 seconds. I have demonstrated that the editors of this series sometimes edit the presentation of the data off their own back to make it look more impressive, and Fugal admitted this to Greenstreet.

Of course there are many other questions about that sequence of images that need answering. Like how large an area it represents, whether the scale represents a vertical or horizontal volume (temperature inversions are a vertical phenomenon, where the lower levels of the atmosphere become colder than the upper levels, thereby trapping moisture and sometimes creating mist or fog), which colours on the clip correspond to which temperatures, and so on.

Note as well the development of a temperature inversion is a natural phenomenon, and could be (and probably was) entirely coincidental. If this event occurred shortly after nightfall the rapid cooling might even be a regular phenomenon every night - you'd have to do a series of control experiments at different times of day, and so on, with and without recorded prayer recital.

 

[eburacum]

...having been involved in research for many years, I never heard of any study that actually employed separate teams of investigators!

Normally the separate teams carry out their research at different times, and later teams of researchers attempt to replicate the results of the first. This is generally where parapsychology research falls down - replication of the results of the first team's results rarely happens, and almost never happens a third time.

Perhaps this is a consequence of the ephemeral nature of such events - as I've suggested before, if there really is an interdimensional aspect to these events, the portal or whatever might have closed before the second or third team can examine the results, and the phenomenon evaporates. For this reason, I think Frideswide's idea of two simultaneous investigations is a good one - if the phenomenon really exists at a particular moment in time, the second team should see it too. Proving the existence of an alien or interdimensional phenomenon would be one of the most important events of the 21st century - it is worth doing it right, and not leaving it to an entertainment franchise.

 

[Carl Grove]

Thanks! That is interesting. 10 seconds is fast - assuming this sequence really was recorded in 10 seconds. I have demonstrated that the editors of this series sometimes edit the presentation of the data off their own back to make it look more impressive, and Fugal admitted this to Greenstreet.

Of course there are many other questions about that sequence of images that need answering. Like how large an area it represents, whether the scale represents a vertical or horizontal volume (temperature inversions are a vertical phenomenon, where the lower levels of the atmosphere become colder than the upper levels, thereby trapping moisture and sometimes creating mist or fog), which colours on the clip correspond to which temperatures, and so on.

Note as well the development of a temperature inversion is a natural phenomenon, and could be (and probably was) entirely coincidental. If this event occurred shortly after nightfall the rapid cooling might even be a regular phenomenon every night - you'd have to do a series of control experiments at different times of day, and so on, with and without recorded prayer recital.

Yes, I have just taken stills from a sequence lasting about 10 seconds. The area shown is basically Homestead 2 from ground level up to above the roof. There is no known natural phenomenon that could explain this. Moreover when the experiment was replicated a few days later with an external specialist in temperature imaging and a recording of the Rabbi's chant a slightly less dramatic inversion took place, but still inexplicable in normal terms. Moreover there was an additional oddity, some small object or phenomenon that shot across the bottom of the image. So this is one experiment that was replicated successfully. Since Homestead 2 is maybe the most consistently active area on the ranch it could be a good place to do multiple replications and experiments.

 

[eburacum]

The helicopter seen over the ranch during the experiment was also interesting but it doesn't surprise me that the government would keep an eye on them just routinely.

Mick West identified that helicopter as a commercial power line survey. Nothing to do with the government, except as a mundane survey of power lines. I know someone who uses helicopters and drones to survey power lines in the UK; it is a very useful tool. Not so good at observing teams of paranormal investigators on the ground.

Yes, there are people in the US government who are watching this series closely; unfortunately some of them are believers, and want it all to be real. They are almost certainly deluded.

 

[Spookdaddy]

...As for debriefing participants, that is something that intelligence agencies do, not scientists...

The word may have its origins in military/intelligence usage - but, when used to describe an after the fact, task focused resumé of events, surely 'debrief' is now general usage.

 

[eburacum]

The area shown is basically Homestead 2 from ground level up to above the roof. There is no known natural phenomenon that could explain this.

This is an external shot of the building Homestead 2? The level of detail is incredibly poor - none of the structural details can be seen. To fully enable an analysis we'd need to know what temperature range is being detected by the false colours in that image - it may be fractions of a degree, which would mean it is not particularly useful, and could be just detecting a cool breeze.

 

[eburacum]

One thing that might help - some thermal cameras have a 'colour scale' incorporated into the image, which shows the temperature range of the target. Did the Skinwalker crew display any colour scales of this kind on-screen? It is possible to 'turn up the sensitivity' of a thermal camera so that small differences cause a big change in colouration, and vice versa.

 

[Carl Grove]

This is an external shot of the building Homestead 2? The level of detail is incredibly poor - none of the structural details can be seen. To fully enable an analysis we'd need to know what temperature range is being detected by the false colours in that image - it may be fractions of a degree, which would mean it is not particularly useful, and could be just detecting a cool breeze.

Here is a summary of the evidence:

---------------------------------------------------------

8.45pm. Night falls, as this particular ritual must be held after dark. All scanners, videos, and other sensors are recording. The chant begins and soon after an anomaly appears in front of the home. A very cold area appears in front of the homestead but the trees overhead are extremely hot. Travis goes in with Dragon and they find it icy cold. [Odd that nobody pointed out the similarity with cases of hauntings where “cold spots” are frequently observed.]

When the data are reviewed at the Control Centre, it seems that a cold area, 20 degrees lower than the surroundings, developed within 10-20 seconds after the ceremony. Erik points to another anomaly, something that moved across the front of the building very rapidly.

 

[dr wu]

Mick West identified that helicopter as a commercial power line survey. Nothing to do with the government, except as a mundane survey of power lines. I know someone who uses helicopters and drones to survey power lines in the UK; it is a very useful tool. Not so good at observing teams of paranormal investigators on the ground.

Yes, there are people in the US government who are watching this series closely; unfortunately some of them are believers, and want it all to be real. They are almost certainly deluded.

Are you talking about the most recent nightime monitoring? I would ask why a power line co would be doing that in the dark over the ranch and not during daytime , and why they had no broadcast transponder on which is the law in the US for civilian aircraft that have them and one would assume a power co. copter would.....? I would also ask how West knew this for a fact,,,did he personally talk to the power company?
If not what is his source?

 

[eburacum]

Well, no. I'm talking about the previous 'unidentified' helicopter, mentioned in this post.
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...er-skinwalker-ranch.6888/page-15#post-2249999

The Skinwalker crew were unable to find a transponder signal from that one, either. That is just another example of a failure by the Skinwalker crew which is trumpeted as an anomaly. Sometimes it is just incomplete data.

The helicopter in this later instance is almost certainly just as innocent; it may even be fans of the series trying to get a look at the ranch.

 

[eburacum]

A very cold area appears in front of the homestead but the trees overhead are extremely hot.

Hmm; that's not a 'temperature inversion'; that's just the trees retaining heat better than the air near the ground. Like I said, they need to perform the same experiment at different times of day as well as the same time of day, with, and without singing.

As I suspected, this event occured soon after nightfall, when rapid changes of temperature are commonplace.

 

[dr wu]

Well, no. I'm talking about the previous 'unidentified' helicopter, mentioned in this post.
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...er-skinwalker-ranch.6888/page-15#post-2249999

The Skinwalker crew were unable to find a transponder signal from that one, either. That is just another example of a failure by the Skinwalker crew which is trumpeted as an anomaly. Sometimes it is just incomplete data.

The helicopter in this later instance is almost certainly just as innocent; it may even be fans of the series trying to get a look at the ranch.

So then we don't know......so its unknown on the copter as to who it belonged to. So speculation from the skeptics also.
And the two images above are not connected,,,,,,,,shame on you.
btw...I'm skeptical on the show also but lets be accurate.

 

[eburacum]

[Odd that nobody pointed out the similarity with cases of hauntings where “cold spots” are frequently observed.]

I've mentioned it elsewhere on this forum, but even I, a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic, have experienced an anomalous 'cold spot' (which I couldn't explain) in a haunted house. These things do happen, and they are very difficult to explain. But the Skinwalker crew didn't even try, with all their equipment.

 

[eburacum]

And the two images above are not connected,,,,,,,,shame on you.

I'm not sure what you mean. There are three images in that montage; one is Travis Taylor looking at the sky, one is the unidentified helicopter, and inset into it is the identification, a local powerline company which uses that kind of helicopter with that exact livery. How are they not connected?

 

[dr wu]

I'm not sure what you mean. There are three images in that montage; one is Travis Taylor looking at the sky, one is the unidentified helicopter, and inset into it is the identification, a local powerline company which uses that kind of helicopter with that exact livery. How are they not connected?

It wasn't clear to me that is the exact same copter as they were looking at. If it is , then that one is explained, but it doesn't explain the recent night one,. There is no way it would be doing a survey at night. So that was an unknown copter ,,,could be 'tourists' , local sheriff, or military I suppose.

 

[eburacum]

Yes, I think that one is explained. Here's a better image of the daytime mystery helicopter

and a view of the local powerline survey helicopter that Mick West identified as the most likely suspect.

To me, the most important factor is that the Skinwalker crew failed to detect the transponder on this daytime 'copter, just like they failed to detect the transponder on the night-time one. I am fairly sure that the daytime helicopter did have a working transponder, but they couldn't pick it up; the same is probably true of the night-time sighting - their failure to detect a transponder is their shortcoming, not a government plot. Mick West also identified positively a couple of planes that had the Skinwalker crew stymied.

The Skinwalker crew consistently present their own failures as anomalies.

 

[dr wu]

Yes, I think that one is explained. Here's a better image of the daytime mystery helicopter

and a view of the local powerline survey helicopter that Mick West identified as the most likely suspect.

To me, the most important factor is that the Skinwalker crew failed to detect the transponder on this daytime 'copter, just like they failed to detect the transponder on the night-time one. I am fairly sure that the daytime helicopter [did have a working transponder, but they couldn't pick it up; the same is true of the night-time sighting - their failure to detect a transponder is their shortcoming, not a government plot.

The Skinwalker crew consistently present their own failures as anomalies.

We don't know the daytime power co. one had a transponder nor that it was working......apparently some don't or it could have been turned off that day. I don't think this has anything to do with other equipment malfunctions at the ranch. IMO they are not necessarily connected.
Again I would be greatly surprised if they are not being monitored by the US since the govt was involved there with BIgelow for 20 years and Taylor is an ex govt employee with 'intel' connections.

 

[eburacum]

That's true. Taylor, and Bigelow before him, are deeply involved with the 'Invisible College', a posse of UFO and paranormal believers in the Pentagon who are deeply interested in these mysteries yet seem to have no critical facilities whatsoever.

https://newrepublic.com/article/162457/government-embrace-ufos-bad-science

“Invisible college” members moved through a series of paranormal initiatives and organizations in the 1990s, culminating in Bigelow’s National Institute for Discovery Science, a private organization in which several members studied UFOs and the paranormal between 1995 and 2004. Vallée sat on its board. NIDS primarily researched—and failed to prove—the supposed paranormal mysteries of a patch of desert in Utah called Skinwalker Ranch. Puthoff and the NIDS team believed it to be a supernatural gateway to the space ghost dimension. (The ranch is now the set of a paranormal reality TV program.) Remarkably, they managed to convince a visiting Defense Intelligence Agency scientist, and the DIA partnered with Bigelow to investigate space ghosts.

 

[Carl Grove]

Hmm; that's not a 'temperature inversion'; that's just the trees retaining heat better than the air near the ground. Like I said, they need to perform the same experiment at different times of day as well as the same time of day, with, and without singing.

As I suspected, this event occured soon after nightfall, when rapid changes of temperature are commonplace.

Sure, trees retain heat and wait to appear hot until they hear an ancient Jewish chant! Please...!

 

[eburacum]

No, they do that naturally.
This was an entirely natural event, unless Taylor can demonstrate otherwise. Which he might possibly achieve, by repeating the same experiment in a range of conditions at different times of day. As it stands, this is just an interesting piece of anecdotal evidence.

 

[dr wu]

@eburacum.....(or anyone else for that matter)....any speculation on what the unusual metal flakes might be ?

 

[catseye]

I'm still puzzled as hell by the ancient Jewish chanting. WHO decided to try an ancient Jewish prayer? And WHY? Why Jewish, as opposed to Muslim, Hindu or Catholic? There's nothing intrinsically 'mystical' about Jewish prayer, and I remain utterly baffled as to why any kind of alien anomaly would give a tuppenny shit about a Jewish prayer sufficient to start wobbling temperatures etc.

 

[charliebrown]

I know this could be really way out, but a episode of the X-Files many years ago, the ancient, mystical part of the Jewish Bible is call Kabbalah.

In this episode a Jewish wife lost her young husband and through Kabbalah made a golem of her husband out of dirt, but this golem was evil.

I assume they are trying to connect the Skinwalker Ranch paranormal to Kabbalah.

I think this Rabbi was a student of Kabbalah.

If I got this wrong, let me know.

 

[eburacum]

I'm still puzzled as hell by the ancient Jewish chanting. WHO decided to try an ancient Jewish prayer? And WHY? Why Jewish, as opposed to Muslim, Hindu or Catholic?

Try enough different things, and something will work. Here's XKCD on the subject of significance.

 

[Carl Grove]

No, they do that naturally.
This was an entirely natural event, unless Taylor can demonstrate otherwise. Which he might possibly achieve, by repeating the same experiment in a range of conditions at different times of day. As it stands, this is just an interesting piece of anecdotal evidence.

You are serious, aren't you! Within 10 seconds, the interior of a small homestead becomes icy cold and the area above the building becomes incredibly hot -- and you think this is a natural event?? Anecdotal -- when it was filmed in infra red video? And the witnesses nearby felt the cold engulf them. There is a saying that some people would "want wetter water" -- and you are definitely one of them.

 

[eburacum]

Without an indication of what the colours mean, we can't really tell how cold this location became. This phenomenon could have been the result of a night breeze coming in, and almost certainly was. It almost certainly was nothing to do with any chant.

We need better data, and unbiased investigators.

 

[Carl Grove]

Without an indication of what the colours mean, we can't really tell how cold this location became. This phenomenon could have been the result of a night breeze coming in, and almost certainly was. It almost certainly was nothing to do with any chant.

We need better data, and unbiased investigators.

Believe that if it pleases you!

 

[eburacum]

I admit that repeating the experiment numerous times would probably fail to prove anything; paranormal events are notoriously difficult to replicate, and seem to suffer some kind of diminishing returns over time. Perhaps this is because the space ghosts get tired of performing on command.

But we do have the data from this one experiment, and if only Fugal or Taylor would release the full details for analysis, rather than this sequence of pretty pictures that could never pass peer review.

 

[charliebrown]

Fugal’s Skinwalker Ranch is skipping this upcoming week’s episode because of Memorial Day.

That is disappointing, but will played the following week.

 

[dr wu]

You might have missed this ....
@eburacum.....(or anyone else for that matter)....any speculation on what the unusual metal flakes might be ?