The Pyramids Of Giza

ProfessorF

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Good news then! I've been itching for them to explore a little further for years.

I'm guessing that Khufu's tomb is not behind them. I have a sinking feeling they might in fact go nowhere at all, in some twisted Egyptian Pyramid Builder joke.

Either that or maybe they were conduits for some speaker cabling and power leads - tsk, cowboy pyramid builders eh? You ask em for some trunking and that's the best they come up with. ;)
 

smokinggun1

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pyramids of giza: an alternative view

I dont believe anybody would want to build such a huge structure for a dead person. All that design, quarrying and block moving - just for a dead man! So maybe the pyramids at giza were built for a different reason - that of survival.
Three man made mountains in which to survive a cataclysmic event such as the deluge.
There are no inscriptions inside (or out) these pyramids. why not? perhaps whoever went in had every intention of coming back out again.
Without the need to leave any history or information about themselves, because they survived.
Does the granite box have to be a sarcophagus?
And just a thought, how do the inside measurements of the granite box compare to those of the ark of the covenant? could they have contained the same object?

Imagine, you hide in your shelter and ride out the storm, and re emerge only to discover that there is no power with which to use all the technology youve hidden away. anybody got a chisel?
 

crunchy5

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Don't forget that if the official history is to be believed the man they were built for was alive during the building project , had the power of a god and lots of tough guys to make sure his will was done.
 

Abraxas12

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Perhaps the outer casings( now missing) were inscribed?
 

smokinggun1

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outer casings

The outer casings are probably spread about cairo, perhaps used as the foundations of the city. A lot of old buildings and temples were destroyed for just this purpose - saves on expensive quarrying.
 

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dismisses theory that concrete was used in pyramids

Egypt's antiquities supremo Zahi Hawass on Sunday derided new studies according to which an early form of concrete rather than natural limestone was used to build the great pyramids.

"It's really silly. It was limestone, it's been studied before by hundreds of chemists," Hawass, who heads the Supreme Council of Antiquities, told AFP.

French Professor Gilles Hug, from the Office of National Aerospatial Studies and Research) and Egyptian-born Michel Barsoum, a professor at Philadelphia's Drexel University analysed the mineralogy of samples from the Giza pyramids.

They found that what would be the earliest known occurrence of concrete was used and not only limestone from the nearby quarries, explaining in part the mystery of how the Egyptians were able to erect such colossal structures.

"The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding," said the article printed in the December issue of the Journal of the American Ceramic Society.

But Hawass dismissed the study and questioned the origin of the samples.

"We don't know the origin of these samples... We certainly never gave permission for anyone to take samples," he said. "This well-worn theory keeps coming up for publicity purposes."

Mark Lehner, a leading Egyptologist, also received the latest research supporting the concrete theory with caution. "Where did these samples come from is the first important question," he told AFP.

The theory that the great pyramids were built using man-made agglomerated stone was first put forward in the early eighties by French chemist Joseph Davidovits.
http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=84365562
 

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Concrete Blocks Used In Great Pyramids Construction

The Great Pyramids of Giza
by Staff Writers
Philadelphia PA (SPX) Dec 05, 2006
In partially solving a mystery that has baffled archeologists for centuries, a Drexel University professor has determined that the Great Pyramids of Giza are constructed with a combination of not only carved stones but the first blocks of limestone-based concrete cast by any civilization.
Michel Barsoum, professor of materials engineering, shows in a peer-reviewed paper published Dec. 1 in the Journal of the American Ceramic Society how the Egyptian builders of the nearly 5,000-year-old pyramids were exceptional civil and architectural engineers as well as superb chemists and material scientists. Barsoum wrote the paper with Adrish Ganguly, a an alumnus who received a doctoral degree in materials engineering from Drexel, and Gilles Hug of the National Center for Scientific Research in France.

Their conclusions could lead to a seismic shift in the kind of concrete used in construction and provide developing nations a way to build structures utilizing inexpensive and easily accessible materials.

The longstanding belief is that the pyramids were constructed with limestone blocks that were cut to shape in nearby quarries using copper tools, transported to the pyramid sites, hauled up ramps and hoisted in place with the help of wedges and levers. Barsoum argues that although indeed the majority of the stones were carved and hoisted into place, crucial parts were not. The ancient builders cast the blocks of the outer and inner casings and, most likely, the upper parts of the pyramids using a limestone concrete, called a geopolymer.

To arrive at his findings, Barsoum, an Egypt native, and co-workers analyzed more than 1,000 micrographs, chemical analyses and other materials over three years. Barsoum, whose interest in the pyramids and geopolymers was piqued five years ago when he heard theories about the construction of the pyramids, says that to construct them with only cast stone builders would have needed an unattainable amount of wood and fuel to heat lime to 900 degrees Celsius.

Barsoum's findings provide long-sought answers to some of the questions about how the pyramids were constructed and with such precision. It puts to rest the question of how steep ramps could have extended to the summit of the pyramids; builders could cast blocks on site, without having to transport stones great distances. By using cast blocks, builders were able to level the pyramids' bases to within an inch. Finally, builders were able to maintain precisely the angles of the pyramids so that the four planes of each arrived at a peak.

Although these findings answer some of the questions about the pyramids, Barsoum says the mystery of how they were built is far from solved. For example, he has been unable to determine how granite beams - spanning kings' chambers and weighing as much as 70 tons each - were cut with nothing harder than copper and hauled in place.

The type of concrete pyramid builders used could reduce pollution and outlast Portland cement, the most common type of modern cement. Portland cement injects a large amount of the world's carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and has a lifespan of about 150 years. If widely used, a geopolymer such as the one used in the construction of the pyramids can reduce that amount of pollution by 90 percent and last much longer. The raw materials used to produce the concrete used in the pyramids - lime, limestone and diatomaceous earth - can be found worldwide and is affordable enough to be an important construction material for developing countries, Barsoum said.

www.terradaily.com/reports/
 

dweller

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Kondoru said:
Why dont these people go investigate the Great white pyramid in China?? Its bigger and painted in pretty colours.
White and painted in pretty colors?

Ah, you mean the well known tourist attraction the Maoling Mausoleum.


http://www.radio86.co.uk/explore-learn/travel/1281/pyramids-in-china-is-shaanxi-the-chinese-giza
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/maoling.htm
http://www.cnhomestay.com/city/xian/maoling.htm

and for a good overview of Chinese tombs:
http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/atam/115005.htm
 

TinFinger

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ive always thought the wonder of the giza pryamids

in even 2 to 3 thoudsand years what will be standing to visit that has been built recently,let alone entered safely,in a similar amount of time.
 

Hanslune

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3,000 years

Some of the large dams will be around, as will other structures made of reinforced, high grade 'Portland' type cement. That would include parts of the Maginot line and other fortifications, some public buildings, bridges, in stable areas with dry climates roads, brick and even steel structures will survive. A number of the heavily built structures of the 18-20th century will survive also.

That is the guestimate based on what has survived from the past. Concrete bridges and building, and those built of stone will last as long as they are not hit with a natural or non-natural disaster.
 

rynner2

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Mystery of Great Pyramid 'solved'

A French architect claims to have solved the mystery of how Egypt's Great Pyramid was built.
Jean-Pierre Houdin said the 4,500-year-old pyramid, just outside Cairo, was built using an inner ramp to lift the massive stones into place.

Other theories contend that the three million stones - each 2.5 tons - were pushed into place using external ramps.

Mr Houdin studied the problem for eight years and used a computer model to illustrate how he thought it was done.

"This is better than the other theories, because it is the only theory that works," said Mr Houdin as he unveiled his theory with a 3D computer simulation.

He believes workers used an outer ramp to build the first 43 metres (47 yards) then constructed an inner ramp to carry stones to the apex of the 137m pyramid.

The pyramid was built to house the tomb of Pharaoh Khufu, also known as Cheops.

The Grand Gallery inside the pyramid, another source of mystery for Egyptologists, housed a giant counter-weight used to hoist five 60 ton granite beams into position above the King's Chamber.

"This goes against both main existing theories," Egyptologist Bob Brier told Reuters news agency after Mr Houdin explained his hypothesis.

"I've been teaching them myself for 20 years but deep down I know they're wrong."

Mr Houdin said that an outer ramp all the way to the top of the pyramid would have blocked sight lines and left little room to work, while a long, frontal ramp would have used up too much stone.

Further confusing matters, there is little evidence left of external ramps at the site of the Great Pyramid.

Mr Houdin said the pyramid could have been built by 4,000 people using his technique instead of 100,000, as postulated by other theorists.

The architect is now assembling a team to verify his theory on site using radars and other non-invasive means.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 514155.stm
 

OldTimeRadio

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Re: pyramids of giza: an alternative view

smokinggun1 said:
I dont believe anybody would want to build such a huge structure for a dead person.
That would surely depend on how important the person was, and whether he/she was regarded as GOD.

And the Gizeh pyramids weren't constructed for "dead persons," per se, as the construction of each seems to have taken place while its respective Pharaoh was alive and well.
 

OldTimeRadio

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Abraxas12 said:
Perhaps the outer casings( now missing) were inscribed?
Don't believe so. Those casing stones still exist - they were removed from the Pyramids to build the mosques of 15th Century Cairo. So if the stones were inscribed there should be historical records no more than 500 - 600 years old and moreover at least some of the inscriptions themselves should still be in evidence to Muslim architectectural historians.

In addition, the purpose of those highly-polished limestone blocks was apparently to make the edifices shine like the sun. Inscriptions would likely have interfered with the desired effect.
 

Hanslune

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The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh Sir Flinders Petrie's

http://www.ronaldbirdsall.com/gizeh/index.htm

Section 176

Thought I put this up yesterday but it seems to have disappeared, here we go again

With regard to the many records of inscriptions on the outside of the Pyramid, a few words are necessary. From the time of Herodotus down to the 15th century, inscriptions are continually mentioned, and their great abundance is described with astonishment by travellers. This has led to the supposition that the builders had left records inscribed on the outside, although not a letter is to be found on the inside. But against the possibility of this view, it must be remembered that no early inscriptions are found on the casing remaining at the Great Pyramid, nor on any of the innumerable fragments of those stones, nor on the remaining casing of the Second Pyramid, nor on that of the Third Pyramid, nor on the casing of the South Pyramid of Dahshur, nor on the casing of the [p. 218] Pyramid of Medum, nor on occasional blocks uncovered at the Sakkara Pyramids. In fact, not a single example of hieroglyphs has ever been seen on any casing, nor on any fragments of casing. The truth then about these numberless inscriptions appears to be that they were all travellers' graffiti. Strabo says that the characters were like old Greek, but were not readable; this points to Phoenician or Cypriote graffiti.. The accounts of the inscriptions given by the Arabs also show that they were mere graffiti; Abu Masher Jafer (before 886 A.D.) mentions Mosannad (i.e., Himyaritic) letters; Ibn Khordadbeh (10th cent.) also mentions Musnad letters; Masudi (11th cent.) describes them as being in various different languages; Ibn Haukal (11th cent.) says they were in Greek. Abu Mothaffer (alias Sibt Al Jauzi, died 1250 A.D.) gives the fullest account, mentioning seven sorts of writing : (1) Greek, (2) Arabic, (3) Syriac, (4) Musnadic, (5) Himyaritic (or Hiritic or Hebrew in different MSS.), (6) Rumi, (7) Persian. William of Baldensel (1336 AD.) mentions Latin; and Cyriacus (1440 A.D.) mentions Phoenician. Whether these travellers all understood exactly what they were talking about may be doubted; but at least none of them describe hieroglyphs, such as they must have been familiar with on all the tombs and other monuments; and they agree in the great diversity of the languages inscribed. The earlier travellers also do not describe such a great number of inscriptions as do the Arabic writers; suggesting that the greater part recorded in later times were due to Roman and Coptic graffiti.

Now among the hundreds of pieces of casing stones that I have looked over, very few traces of inscription were to be seen; this was, however, to be expected, considering that the pieces nearly all belonged to the upper casing stones, out of the reach of mere travellers. Three examples of single letters were found, two Greek and one unknown; and on the W. side, in one of the excavations, a piece was discovered bearing three graffiti, one large one attracting lesser scribblers, as in modern times. The earliest inscription was probably of Ptolemy X., showing portions of the letters Π T O ........... C ω T .......; the next was a Romano-Greek of a certain M A P K I O C K ......; and over that an Arab had roughly hammered in ..... m a j ...... This is the only example of continuous inscriptions yet found, and it belonged to one of the lowest courses; it is now in the Bulak Museum. Thus, all the fragments and the descriptions point to the existence of a large body of graffiti, but do not give any evidence of original hieroglyphic inscriptions.

When one considers the large number of graffiti which are to be seen on every ancient building of importance, it seems almost impossible but that the Great Pyramid — one of the most renowned and visited of all — should not have been similarly covered with ancient scribbles, like the host of modern names which have been put upon it since the casing was removed.9 The statues of [p. 219] Ramessu II., at Abu Simbel, bear quantities of Greek graffiti, in fact, some of the earliest Greek inscriptions known, besides Phoenician and Roman; the top of the temple of Khonsu at Karnak is crowded with the outlines of visitors' feet, with their names and particulars appended, in hieroglyphic, demotic, and Greek the inscriptions on the colossi of Amenhotep III. ("the Memnons") at Thebes, and on the Sphinx at Gizeh are well known; the long scribbles in demotic on the temple walls at Thebes have lately been examined; the corridors of Abydos bear early Greek graffiti; the passage of the S. Pyramid of Dahshur has two hieroglyphic graffiti, besides Greek; and there is scarcely any monument of importance in Egypt but what shows the scribbling propensities of mankind; be they Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, or the worst sinners of modern times, Hellenes and Americans.
 

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Robot to explore mysterious tunnels in Great Pyramid
For 4,500 years, no one has known what lies beyond two stone doors deep inside the monument
By Andrew Johnson
Sunday, 8 August 2010

For 4,500 years, the Great Pyramid at Giza has enthralled, fascinated and ultimately frustrated everyone who has attempted to penetrate its secrets.

Now a robotics team from Leeds University, working with Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities, is preparing a machine which they hope will solve one of its enduring mysteries.

The pyramid, known as the Pyramid of Khufu after the king who built it around 2,560BC, is the only wonder of the ancient world still standing. At its heart are two rooms known as the King's Chamber and the Queen's Chamber. Two shafts rise from the King's Chamber at 45-degree angles and lead to the exterior of the monument. They are believed to be a passageway designed to fire the king's spirit into the firmament so that he can take his place among the stars.

In the Queen's Chamber, there are two further shafts, discovered in 1872. Unlike those in the King's Chamber, these do not lead to the outer face of the pyramid

No one knows what the shafts are for. In 1992, a camera sent up the shaft leading from the south wall of the Queen's Chamber discovered it was blocked after 60 metres by a limestone door with two copper handles. In 2002, a further expedition drilled through this door and revealed, 20 centimetres behind it, a second door.

"The second door is unlike the first. It looks as if it is screening or covering something," said Dr Zahi Hawass, the head of the Supreme Council who is in charge of the expedition. The north shaft bends by 45 degrees after 18 metres but, after 60 metres, is also blocked by a limestone door.

Now technicians at Leeds University are putting the finishing touches to a robot which, they hope, will follow the shaft to its end. Known as the Djedi project, after the magician whom Khufu consulted when planning the pyramid, the robot will be able to drill through the second set of doors to see what lies beyond.

Dr Robert Richardson, of the Leeds University School of Mechanical Engineering, said they would continue the expedition until they reach the end of the shafts.

"We have been working on the project for five years," he said. "We have no preconceptions. We are trying to gain evidence for other people to draw conclusions. There are two shafts. The north shaft is blocked by a limestone door and nothing has penetrated that door. With the south shaft a previous team has measured the thickness of the stone, drilled through it and put a camera through it and found there was another surface. We are going to determine how thick that is and we could drill through it. We are preparing the robot now and expect to send it up before the end of the year. It's a big question, and it's very important not to cause unnecessary damage. We will carry on until we find the answer. We hope to get all the data possible which will be sufficient to answer the questions."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 46506.html
 

Bigfoot73

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Well, I feel confident in predicting that breaking through the door will release a storm of pyramidiocy and Hawass-bashing.
Not sure what they hope to find in this shaft: IIRC they are using a robot because the shaft is far too narrow for a human to get up there, so it's highly unlikely to be where the the Pharoah's own personal UFO conveyance to the Otherworld is stashed.
Wouldn't mind betting they just find another door. :p
 

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At best they'll find a statue with its face towards the stars (a bit like the Djoser one at Saqqara).
 

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wouldnt it be better to use the robot to help possition exactly where and how far from the exterior of the pyramid the robot reaches?

a quick google shows there is a system of Electromagnetic Location System for Trapped Miners so the kit wont need inventing only deploying at the site

at the very least we could determin if its better to drill from the outside or if at all,at best it may be possible to show a cavern/space exsists between the outer skin and the scorce

imho drilling another hole when the last atempt failed isnt to prudent
the above method wont involve any destruction of any surface but could greatly enhance future inspection.if this hole also fails i think they might not let anyone near for whatever reason for a very long time...
 

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Wouldn't mind betting they just find another door. Razz
That was my first thought too :lol:

it is very strange though, putting doors in a shaft that's too small for anyone to get into. did someone miss the bottle with 'drink me' on it? :lol:
 

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BlackRiverFalls said:
...

it is very strange though, putting doors in a shaft that's too small for anyone to get into. did someone miss the bottle with 'drink me' on it? :lol:
The doors aren't intended for the living, but for the spirit of the dead Pharaoh. They're symbolic, entrances to the afterlife, guarding a pathway to the stars.
 

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but for me the puzzeling part is that they would have to build the grand gallery at the same time as the queens chamber,if they intended the queens soul to reach where ever why did they block the shafts for her and not the king?if it was intended for the king originally why build the grand gallery?wouldnt it be pointless to construct the shafts at all past the point given for them?


if the shafts in the queens chamber had been intended for such a use they wouldnt have been sealed,if they didnt intend them to be used why bother to finnish building them?

its all odd as from the evidence left in the pyramid they didnt leave much to chance anywhere in its construction

for me there must be another reason for these shafts as they ,again,seemed to be very sure about every aspect of this building
 

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I can't quite escape the suspicion that had this project been turned over to a half-dozen bright high school physics students a decade back we'd have learned all the secrets of the shaft and its doors nine years ago.
 

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OldTimeRadio said:
I can't quite escape the suspicion that had this project been turned over to a half-dozen bright high school physics students a decade back we'd have learned all the secrets of the shaft and its doors nine years ago.
I agree. It's all been drawn out to keep Zahi Hawass in a job.
 

rynner2

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Mythopoeika said:
OldTimeRadio said:
I can't quite escape the suspicion that had this project been turned over to a half-dozen bright high school physics students a decade back we'd have learned all the secrets of the shaft and its doors nine years ago.
I agree. It's all been drawn out to keep Zahi Hawass in a job.
Now technicians at Leeds University are putting the finishing touches to a robot which, they hope, will follow the shaft to its end. Known as the Djedi project, after the magician whom Khufu consulted when planning the pyramid, the robot will be able to drill through the second set of doors to see what lies beyond.

Dr Robert Richardson, of the Leeds University School of Mechanical Engineering, said they would continue the expedition until they reach the end of the shafts.

"We have been working on the project for five years," he said. "We have no preconceptions. We are trying to gain evidence for other people to draw conclusions.
This is clearly a long-term project, during which many avenues will have been explored in the planning.

And why should a British University care about keeping Zahi Hawass in a job?
 

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I don't think it's so much keeping Zahi Hawass in a job as keeping him onside, as he has the power to stop them doing any research. He's one of the variety of academics/administrators, who manages to his name on all the publications in the field, without actually doing anything and is determined to take credit for everything that's discovered.
 

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Timble2 said:
I don't think it's so much keeping Zahi Hawass in a job as keeping him onside, as he has the power to stop them doing any research. He's one of the variety of academics/administrators, who manages to his name on all the publications in the field, without actually doing anything and is determined to take credit for everything that's discovered.
Any documentaries on Egypt seem to rapidly degnerate into the Zahi Hawass show, no matter how outlandish the theory on display.
 

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Hall Of Records

This subject absolutely fascinates me.

I've tried, over some time, to read as much info as possible on this mysterious chambers that may or may not exist under the Pyramids of Egypt.

I remember seeing a documentary once where they sent a small camera down a shaft and discovered a door way, and beyond that a chamber they believed was flooded with water. I can't remember if they could see a door the other side.

It does all seem very hush hush regarding this. Maybe it is just the subject matter, or maybe the Egyptian authorities aren't too keen on this room being found, since it could, in a sense, destroy religion as we know it.

Has anyone found any websites or footage regarding this? It is the stuff of day dreams as to what they may/may not find in there, if they ever find it.

RS
 

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I remember watching on Discovery Channel when they went through one blocked tunnel live only to discover another slab of rock right behind.

From my own personal experience I found the Pyramids themselves pretty dull*, presumably there are more tunnels and rooms that are not open to the public but it seemed like a long scrabble down and then a long scrabble up to find a plain empty room with an empty stone tomb in it.

Maybe our guide just took us in the dull part, I remember one of the other Pyramids having an entrance a few steps up that we didn't get to go in.

It fascinates me what may be stored away underneath the Pyramids and what is behind those blocked off areas, sadly though i think the truth is probably less interesting than the myth. While there is an unknown something behind a blocked tunnel we are free to conjure up all sorts of ideas as to what may be in there. Once we manage to see on the other side I'd wager it is most likely to just be a dead end tunnel or an empty room.
:(

* The interior that is, the exterior was endlessly fascinating.
 

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Heckler20 said:
Timble2 said:
I don't think it's so much keeping Zahi Hawass in a job as keeping him onside, as he has the power to stop them doing any research. He's one of the variety of academics/administrators, who manages to his name on all the publications in the field, without actually doing anything and is determined to take credit for everything that's discovered.
Any documentaries on Egypt seem to rapidly degnerate into the Zahi Hawass show, no matter how outlandish the theory on display.
Yes, and he's not really a force for enlightenment is he. It seems to me between his "I have all the answers so just take my word" reductionism and the "oh my God, it was all ALIENS!" madness there are just so many valid and fascinating questions going unanswered. You don't have to be a believer in Ancient Aliens to think the total absence of tomb-inscriptions, the apparent water-damage on the sphinx, and other anomalies just might be worth thinking about, but that kind of moderation seems to get precious little airtime.
 

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Timble2 said:
I don't think it's so much keeping Zahi Hawass in a job as keeping him onside, as he has the power to stop them doing any research. He's one of the variety of academics/administrators, who manages to his name on all the publications in the field, without actually doing anything and is determined to take credit for everything that's discovered.
Uh yeah, Timble said it so much better than me.
It's what I meant with my previous comment.
 
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