Time Or Dimensional Slips

[ghughesarch]

Unless, of course, the routing of electricity pylons was somehow influenced by ley lines or some other phenomena. I don't suppose anyone has ever tried plotting the purported routes of ley lines against the actual routes of electrical power lines?

As Carl has said above, "ley lines" aren't quite the same thing as "earth energy lines", which I think are what he's talking about and (very big "if") if they exist are perhaps analagous in some ways with modern electrical power lines in terms of the effect they might have on human perceptions.
Back when I thought there might be something in ley lines, beyond an entertaining myth, I found some beauties in my local area (round St Helens in Lancashire), one backed up by a local rhyme recorded in a book of Lancashire folklore published in the 1870s ("Prescot and Huyton and Merry Childo [Childwall], three parish churches all in a row" - which I found extended through an ancient wayside cross and ended on a prominent beacon hill). Then I decided to test them by looking for alignments of things on the OS 1:50000 map that couldn't possibly be ancient. And I found several even better ones linking local schools, none of which is earlier then the 19th century, stretching further and incorporating more points then any of the "historic" ones I'd found. Unless Lancashire County Council's education committee, its predecessors and successors are the keepers of Ancient Wisdom, I was forced to conclude that coincidence is a fascinating thing.

 

[Carl Grove]

As Carl has said above, "ley lines" aren't quite the same thing as "earth energy lines", which I think are what he's talking about and (very big "if") if they exist are perhaps analagous in some ways with modern electrical power lines in terms of the effect they might have on human perceptions.
Back when I thought there might be something in ley lines, beyond an entertaining myth, I found some beauties in my local area (round St Helens in Lancashire), one backed up by a local rhyme recorded in a book of Lancashire folklore published in the 1870s ("Prescot and Huyton and Merry Childo [Childwall], three parish churches all in a row" - which I found extended through an ancient wayside cross and ended on a prominent beacon hill). Then I decided to test them by looking for alignments of things on the OS 1:50000 map that couldn't possibly be ancient. And I found several even better ones linking local schools, none of which is earlier then the 19th century, stretching further and incorporating more points then any of the "historic" ones I'd found. Unless Lancashire County Council's education committee, its predecessors and successors are the keepers of Ancient Wisdom, I was forced to conclude that coincidence is a fascinating thing.

Good point. In fact, looking at the St Michael ley, I now think the apparent linearity is an artifact -- there are two distinct energy lines detected by energy dowsers, probably the result of geological faulting, that travel in a relatively wide corridor across the country, in a serpentine fashion. Yes, a lot of old churches and sites were located on one or other of these currents, and a lot of these therefore lie directly on a line, by chance. The book that first popularised these currents was The Sun and the Serpent by Hamish Miller and Paul Broadhurst (1989) If you skim past the long New Age romanticising there are some very interesting connections noted.

It does seem, as you put very elegantly, that these currents are analogous to modern power lines. They can, being dependent on the relative positions of sun and Earth, vary periodically, and if the circulation of the core is also key (as I suspect), there will be longer term fluctuations as well. Maybe this is why the ancient sites, circles, henges and standing stones, were either abandoned or morphed into ritual centres (the ritual now being a mindless repetition of what was originally a technical operation), even though today many still generate time slips and other odd happenings.
If my Native American informant was correct, the circles may even have been used as teleportation hubs!

 

[CuriousIdent]

I agree that anything such as a high tension power line might have an effect on the local energy flows. Before I go any further, I had been assuming that you had read my full report on the Rougham mystery, but I deduce from what you are saying that you haven't, so I'll add a quick link here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bci69we0ji3avi/THE ROUGHAM MYSTERY.pdf?dl=0

this will hopefully explain the way in which I was led towards the earth energy question and other equally controversial topics, all of which are directly relevant to the mystery, and may well be relevant to other cases such as the one you mention.

I'll take a look at the weekend, Carl. But I do a lot of my browsing on here during my lunch hour at work, so DropBox becomes a firewall issue for me while I'm here.

Oddly enough, Chris Jensen Romer, who had done the last bit of serious research in Rougham in the 80s, does know the Time Team, and was talking about trying to get ground penetrating radar to use there (though mostly in the Grove, where there do seem to be buried ruins of some kind).

So that would be the site where some kind of brick work or foundations was visible on satellite photography?

The field where the east side house is seen was first ploughed mechanically after the war, and the tenant farmer (whom I spoke to on the phone) did dig up a lot of high quality red bricks there.

Which would certainly match up with the description of the phantom building. Interesting to know.

As you will see the Michael line is an earth energy line, not a ley line, although it is associated with the famous ley running from St Michael's Mount. If you can see past the usual New Agey accretions that have tainted the basic idea (if that's the right word), there does seem to be evidence emerging that the energy is physically real and appears to be associated with time slips and other odd phenomena. However, it is a controversial area.

Definitely. Nor one which can be quantifiably proved. But the concept of there being some kind of natural earth energy is not so utterly ridiculous. I agree that ley lines do have a fairly liberal amount of new age hokum attached to them. But be it by coincidence or by something yet unexplained I do understand that some folks have been able to plot lines between sites of worship, geographical features and areas in which strange phenomena has been reported to occur. I don't believe in a lot of the hippy dippy new agey angle, but also cannot entirely disregard that there might be something very natural and earth-sciencey going on, to have pointed so many people towards that same direction.

I didn't put two and two together in your last post, but I am very vaguely aware of the St Michael's Line. But I had only heard of it in terms of being a Ley Line. Probably one of the best known examples, because so many viably important sites fall along its line. But again it's unclear if that is by coincidence, or by a natural migration pattern of ancient Britons rather than an energy pattern.

There's no way of being certain, sadly. Although my gut tells me that our more ancient ancestors must have had some kind of logic to the patterns in which they placed and built settlements and monuments. The natural world around them was all they had back then, so plotting and planning using the movements of sun, the seasons, or something else in the natural world around them seems likely.

 

[Carl Grove]

I'll take a look at the weekend, Carl. But I do a lot of my browsing on here during my lunch hour at work, so DropBox becomes a firewall issue for me while I'm here.
No problem -- it's not too long anyway.



So that would be the site where some kind of brick work or foundations was visible on satellite photography?
No, the Colville's Grove is a wooded area with avenues of trees apparently on the site of a large house. Chris and his team found brick fragments there, and I found a lot of mounds and bumps as if signifying a lot of buried material.



Which would certainly match up with the description of the phantom building. Interesting to know.
Yes.



Definitely. Nor one which can be quantifiably proved. But the concept of there being some kind of natural earth energy is not so utterly ridiculous. I agree that ley lines do have a fairly liberal amount of new age hokum attached to them. But be it by coincidence or by something yet unexplained I do understand that some folks have been able to plot lines between sites of worship, geographical features and areas in which strange phenomena has been reported to occur. I don't believe in a lot of the hippy dippy new agey angle, but also cannot entirely disregard that there might be something very natural and earth-sciencey going on, to have pointed so many people towards that same direction.

I didn't put two and two together in your last post, but I am very vaguely aware of the St Michael's Line. But I had only heard of it in terms of being a Ley Line. Probably one of the best known examples, because so many viably important sites fall along its line. But again it's unclear if that is by coincidence, or by a natural migration pattern of ancient Britons rather than an energy pattern.

There's no way of being certain, sadly. Although my gut tells me that our more ancient ancestors must have had some kind of logic to the patterns in which they placed and built settlements and monuments. The natural world around them was all they had back then, so plotting and planning using the movements of sun, the seasons, or something else in the natural world around them seems likely.

Nothing can be certain, but dowsers have found that almost all ancient sites are in areas of high energy, and many later religious buildings. (For example, St Edmundsbury Abbey, on my doorstep, lies on a point where the Michael and Mary energies come within a short distance of each other, and the Norman tower is situated on Michael and the Abbey Gatehouse on Mary.) My best guess is that many of the ancient peoples were naturally sensitive to the energies and slowly developed ways of harnessing them. (Even today not all dowsers need rods or sticks -- Hamish Miller, for example, was able to sense the energy using just his hands.) The fact that these people had no book learning and intellectualising interfering with the more subtle perceptual processes is important. I would guess that a lot of the ritual actions would involve circular movements -- round dances -- and I have contacted one lady who circled a standing stone several times and then saw an old church nearby that shouldn't have been there. I also came on a case wherein a little girl found that by circling a house in one direction she could see scenes in the past, and by reversing that movement return to the present. I also think that the Pavlita devices are tapping into the same process.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Like I say, I do take a lot of it with a fairly liberal pinch of salt. But I do think there may be something in it. I think I'd prefer to think that rather than Ancient Britons being somehow specially attuned to these things in a way which we no longer are - like psychics or wizards or something - there was just some kind of natural environmental or geographical energy which subconsciously directed them to focus building and developing in certain places, on an unconscious level.

Be that an unseen energy which can no longer be readily detected or simply something more along the lines of 'No Barry, we're not going to build a Castle in that swamp. That is going be a bloody stupid idea!'.

But I think the key here would be that the land, the seasons and the hours of daylight decide and guide. Because that all our ancestors had to go by.

Anybody who has ever gone out to designated Dark Skies sites in our National Parks will have seen just how much more detail of the stars above us can be observed at night when you remove artificial lighting. I think it's not implausible that if we removed electricity, radio and tv broadcasts, mobile phone reception, wifi, phone and broadband lines we might find some kind of evidence of a natural energy signature beneath.

 

[Carl Grove]

Like I say, I do take a lot of it with a fairly liberal pinch of salt. But I do think there may be something in it. I think I'd prefer to think that rather than Ancient Britons being somehow specially attuned to these things in a way which we no longer are - like psychics or wizards or something - there was just some kind of natural environmental or geographical energy which subconsciously directed them to focus building and developing in certain places, on an unconscious level.

Be that an unseen energy which can no longer be readily detected or simply something more along the lines of 'No Barry, we're not going to build a Castle in that swamp. That is going be a bloody stupid idea!'.

But I think the key here would be that the land, the seasons and the hours of daylight decide and guide. Because that all our ancestors had to go by.

Anybody who has ever gone out to designated Dark Skies sites in our National Parks will have seen just how much more detail of the stars above us can be observed at night when you remove artificial lighting. I think it's not implausible that if we removed electricity, radio and tv broadcasts, mobile phone reception, wifi, phone and broadband lines we might find some kind of evidence of a natural energy signature beneath.

I wasn't saying that our ancestors were better attuned than us, although I'm sure that not everybody in those days had sensitivity to the energy, but that our culture has tended to suppress or inhibit subtle perceptions, hence the difficulty that a lot of us have in recognising them in ourselves or accepting that others might have them. Even today some surviving cultures have no problem in accepting the existence of different energies and their possible usefulness.

Fortunately dowsing seems to enable a fair percentage of the population to detect the energy using specialised tools, so we don't really need to switch off all our power, radio, TV, wifi, microwaves etc. to do it! It seems that the energy flows up through the dowser's feet and then affects the rods -- exactly how needs to be determined. Maybe it's simply the percentage of water in their body. Water tends to absorb then re-radiate the energy, hence, perhaps, the henges with ditches surrounding the stone circle containing what must have been a lot of water.

I suppose that the Barry types who were totally clueless about everything wouldn't have survived for long, so there was some natural selection going on.

 

[CuriousIdent]

From discussion in one of the other rogue time slip threads floating about these boards, I submit the following :

A timeslip whilst driving near Piccadilly Circus:


Location: Piccadilly Circus, London

Date: Unknown

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: Glyn Jackson, an ex-boss ATS poster abacus10

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Visual – Change in Weather conditions observed.

Source of Testimony: A post in the Bizarre Time Slip Cases thread at Above Top Secret.

Description: Poster abacus10 claims that the following experience was once relayed to them by a former work Boss of theirs. To quote.:

This happened to my ex-boss, Glyn Jackson in London, England.

He remained silent about it for years as it had deeply disturbed him and changed his life.

Glyn's story is Highly believable as Glyn is person who lacks imagination on such a scale that he could not put together a grade one story for English to save his life.

Glyn was driving in central London up from Piccadilly Circus up Regent Street in heavy traffic. Regent Street, incidentally, although a major shopping centre, was built, originally, over 200 years ago during the reign of King George III.

Suddenly, Glyn's car hit a really, really bumpy part of the road and, for a moment, he thought that he had a flat tyre, and he braked sharply. But it was not a flat, simply the road surface had completely gone and been replaced with one of rough pebbles and dirt. At that instant, he noticed that the entire sky had changed and all the clouds were different. Also, he realised at this moment that all the stores had changed and had been replaced by small unknown ones and that all the people were dressed in 18th century costume. Furthermore, all the dense London traffic had disappeared and been replaced by just a few horse riders, coaches and carts.

In blind panic, Glyn slammed his car into reverse and hit the gas. His car hurtled backwards and a number of the 18th Century people began glancing around, clearly trying to make out what was happening as if they had never seen a car before the wheels of his car was sending pebbles and stones everywhere.

A few seconds later, suddenly, the street changed again, and Glyn narrowly missed driving backwards into the front of a car that had suddenly materialised behind him, and he realised that once again, he was back in today's London and its dense traffic jams.


abacus10 further added:


Incidentally, one other thing freaked out Glyn about this. Later, when he looked at his car, he found the paintwork on his car had the chips out of it where the wheels had spun on the stone chippings of the rough road surface.


Notes:


This story was posted to ATS in October 2013. Unfortunately, abacus10 has not been active on Above Top Secret since 2014. Further plying for information is unlikely to be possible. The poster speaks of this as something which occurred some years ago, but no date of the experience is given.

I’ve classified this as a Type 3 rather than 4, purely because Glyn did not interact with his surroundings directly. While he claimed to have experienced the rumble of driving over rough terrain this was experienced whilst he was inside the car. There is no suggestion that he touched it directly, and the assumption that this rumbling was caused by progressing onto a dirt road is an assumption which could plausibly be explained away by other mechanical problems with the car or changes to the surface of a road in the present day. A similar sensation could be experienced, for example, by driving over rough terrain where roadworks were occurring and old tarmac has been chipped away ahead or re-laying.

It is also far from conclusively provable that the chipped paintwork spoken of was caused by this incident. It impossible without speaking to Glyn to ascertain if he had inspected the paintwork before his journey, or if he had encountered anything else on his journey which could have caused this.

Without further description of the costumes or storefronts it is difficult to be sure which era these may
have belonged to. Abacus10 mentions the reign of George III and the 18th century, but it is unclear as to whether those are their own assertions or what Glyn believed, himself. Horses and coaches would fit with any pre-motorvehicle era, but more detailed descriptions of shopfronts and people’s attire would help to build a clearer picture.

It would be hard to conclusively say that people in the area were directly aware of seeing Glyn, as we have no direct testimony of them interacting with him – physically, verbally or through eye contact. Though obviously motor vehicles of any kind on London streets pre-1900 would have been a pretty odd - certainly a contemporary one. One might argue that the amount of dust and dirt kicked up by the car *may* have obscured it partly from view, but it would be unlikely to obscure it all.

This is not the only story we have heard of a potential Time Slip in the Piccadilly Circus area. In 1981 forum poster NumberNine had an experience at Piccadilly Tube Station of a cafe in the area they were unable to find on future visits as detailed here: https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-27#post-1725170

 

[Carl Grove]

From discussion in one of the other rogue time slip threads floating about these boards, I submit the following :

A timeslip whilst driving near Piccadilly Circus:


Location: Piccadilly Circus, London

Date: Unknown

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: Glyn Jackson, an ex-boss ATS poster abacus10

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Visual – Change in Weather conditions observed.

Source of Testimony: A post in the Bizarre Time Slip Cases thread at Above Top Secret.

Description: Poster abacus10 claims that the following experience was once relayed to them by a former work Boss of theirs. To quote.:

This happened to my ex-boss, Glyn Jackson in London, England.

He remained silent about it for years as it had deeply disturbed him and changed his life.

Glyn's story is Highly believable as Glyn is person who lacks imagination on such a scale that he could not put together a grade one story for English to save his life.

Glyn was driving in central London up from Piccadilly Circus up Regent Street in heavy traffic. Regent Street, incidentally, although a major shopping centre, was built, originally, over 200 years ago during the reign of King George III.

Suddenly, Glyn's car hit a really, really bumpy part of the road and, for a moment, he thought that he had a flat tyre, and he braked sharply. But it was not a flat, simply the road surface had completely gone and been replaced with one of rough pebbles and dirt. At that instant, he noticed that the entire sky had changed and all the clouds were different. Also, he realised at this moment that all the stores had changed and had been replaced by small unknown ones and that all the people were dressed in 18th century costume. Furthermore, all the dense London traffic had disappeared and been replaced by just a few horse riders, coaches and carts.

In blind panic, Glyn slammed his car into reverse and hit the gas. His car hurtled backwards and a number of the 18th Century people began glancing around, clearly trying to make out what was happening as if they had never seen a car before the wheels of his car was sending pebbles and stones everywhere.

A few seconds later, suddenly, the street changed again, and Glyn narrowly missed driving backwards into the front of a car that had suddenly materialised behind him, and he realised that once again, he was back in today's London and its dense traffic jams.


abacus10 further added:


Incidentally, one other thing freaked out Glyn about this. Later, when he looked at his car, he found the paintwork on his car had the chips out of it where the wheels had spun on the stone chippings of the rough road surface.


Notes:


This story was posted to ATS in October 2013. Unfortunately, abacus10 has not been active on Above Top Secret since 2014. Further plying for information is unlikely to be possible. The poster speaks of this as something which occurred some years ago, but no date of the experience is given.

I’ve classified this as a Type 3 rather than 4, purely because Glyn did not interact with his surroundings directly. While he claimed to have experienced the rumble of driving over rough terrain this was experienced whilst he was inside the car. There is no suggestion that he touched it directly, and the assumption that this rumbling was caused by progressing onto a dirt road is an assumption which could plausibly be explained away by other mechanical problems with the car or changes to the surface of a road in the present day. A similar sensation could be experienced, for example, by driving over rough terrain where roadworks were occurring and old tarmac has been chipped away ahead or re-laying.

It is also far from conclusively provable that the chipped paintwork spoken of was caused by this incident. It impossible without speaking to Glyn to ascertain if he had inspected the paintwork before his journey, or if he had encountered anything else on his journey which could have caused this.

Without further description of the costumes or storefronts it is difficult to be sure which era these may
have belonged to. Abacus10 mentions the reign of George III and the 18th century, but it is unclear as to whether those are their own assertions or what Glyn believed, himself. Horses and coaches would fit with any pre-motorvehicle era, but more detailed descriptions of shopfronts and people’s attire would help to build a clearer picture.

It would be hard to conclusively say that people in the area were directly aware of seeing Glyn, as we have no direct testimony of them interacting with him – physically, verbally or through eye contact. Though obviously motor vehicles of any kind on London streets pre-1900 would have been a pretty odd - certainly a contemporary one. One might argue that the amount of dust and dirt kicked up by the car *may* have obscured it partly from view, but it would be unlikely to obscure it all.

This is not the only story we have heard of a potential Time Slip in the Piccadilly Circus area. In 1981 forum poster NumberNine had an experience at Piccadilly Tube Station of a cafe in the area they were unable to find on future visits as detailed here: http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-27#post-1725170

I would be inclined to give this one the benefit of the doubt and class it as a 4, also taking into account the near miss with another car when he came back to the present. It would be nice to locate the driver of that car, if he might have remembered the incident!

 

[Schrodinger's Zebra]

From discussion in one of the other rogue time slip threads floating about these boards, I submit the following :

A timeslip whilst driving near Piccadilly Circus:


Location: Piccadilly Circus, London

Date: Unknown

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: Glyn Jackson, an ex-boss ATS poster abacus10

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Visual – Change in Weather conditions observed.

Source of Testimony: A post in the Bizarre Time Slip Cases thread at Above Top Secret.

Description: Poster abacus10 claims that the following experience was once relayed to them by a former work Boss of theirs. To quote.:

This happened to my ex-boss, Glyn Jackson in London, England.

He remained silent about it for years as it had deeply disturbed him and changed his life.

Glyn's story is Highly believable as Glyn is person who lacks imagination on such a scale that he could not put together a grade one story for English to save his life.

Glyn was driving in central London up from Piccadilly Circus up Regent Street in heavy traffic. Regent Street, incidentally, although a major shopping centre, was built, originally, over 200 years ago during the reign of King George III.

Suddenly, Glyn's car hit a really, really bumpy part of the road and, for a moment, he thought that he had a flat tyre, and he braked sharply. But it was not a flat, simply the road surface had completely gone and been replaced with one of rough pebbles and dirt. At that instant, he noticed that the entire sky had changed and all the clouds were different. Also, he realised at this moment that all the stores had changed and had been replaced by small unknown ones and that all the people were dressed in 18th century costume. Furthermore, all the dense London traffic had disappeared and been replaced by just a few horse riders, coaches and carts.

In blind panic, Glyn slammed his car into reverse and hit the gas. His car hurtled backwards and a number of the 18th Century people began glancing around, clearly trying to make out what was happening as if they had never seen a car before the wheels of his car was sending pebbles and stones everywhere.

A few seconds later, suddenly, the street changed again, and Glyn narrowly missed driving backwards into the front of a car that had suddenly materialised behind him, and he realised that once again, he was back in today's London and its dense traffic jams.


abacus10 further added:


Incidentally, one other thing freaked out Glyn about this. Later, when he looked at his car, he found the paintwork on his car had the chips out of it where the wheels had spun on the stone chippings of the rough road surface.


Notes:


This story was posted to ATS in October 2013. Unfortunately, abacus10 has not been active on Above Top Secret since 2014. Further plying for information is unlikely to be possible. The poster speaks of this as something which occurred some years ago, but no date of the experience is given.

I’ve classified this as a Type 3 rather than 4, purely because Glyn did not interact with his surroundings directly. While he claimed to have experienced the rumble of driving over rough terrain this was experienced whilst he was inside the car. There is no suggestion that he touched it directly, and the assumption that this rumbling was caused by progressing onto a dirt road is an assumption which could plausibly be explained away by other mechanical problems with the car or changes to the surface of a road in the present day. A similar sensation could be experienced, for example, by driving over rough terrain where roadworks were occurring and old tarmac has been chipped away ahead or re-laying.

It is also far from conclusively provable that the chipped paintwork spoken of was caused by this incident. It impossible without speaking to Glyn to ascertain if he had inspected the paintwork before his journey, or if he had encountered anything else on his journey which could have caused this.

Without further description of the costumes or storefronts it is difficult to be sure which era these may
have belonged to. Abacus10 mentions the reign of George III and the 18th century, but it is unclear as to whether those are their own assertions or what Glyn believed, himself. Horses and coaches would fit with any pre-motorvehicle era, but more detailed descriptions of shopfronts and people’s attire would help to build a clearer picture.

It would be hard to conclusively say that people in the area were directly aware of seeing Glyn, as we have no direct testimony of them interacting with him – physically, verbally or through eye contact. Though obviously motor vehicles of any kind on London streets pre-1900 would have been a pretty odd - certainly a contemporary one. One might argue that the amount of dust and dirt kicked up by the car *may* have obscured it partly from view, but it would be unlikely to obscure it all.

This is not the only story we have heard of a potential Time Slip in the Piccadilly Circus area. In 1981 forum poster NumberNine had an experience at Piccadilly Tube Station of a cafe in the area they were unable to find on future visits as detailed here: http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-27#post-1725170

Oh this is a good one, I like it. I wonder whether the 18th century people could in fact see his car at all - not because of obscured by dust, but because it wasn't something in their frame of reference so therefore their eyes couldn't see it - bear with me -

I'm thinking of something I read some time ago about when an explorer (might have been Captain Cook, that sort of person) landed his ship on some uncharted place and met the natives - they were absolutely unable to see the ship because they had never seen one before, so their eyes/brain did not perceive it.

So could the same be said of the 18th century people - they perhaps heard a noise which caused them to look around, but maybe didn't actually see the car?

Oh and - wouldn't it be good if we could find out what the car driver - back in the present day whom the witness almost reversed into - saw. What did he see from his POV? Did the car in front of him suddenly appear, or did he just become aware of it reversing toward him? Would have been even better if he'd had a dashcam. I guess too much time will have passed for there to be any remaining CCTV footage of the area in question.

Come to think of it, would have been even even better if the witness had recorded his 18th c. trip on a dashcam. Now that would be something.

 

[EnolaGaia]

... I'm thinking of something I read some time ago about when an explorer (might have been Captain Cook, that sort of person) landed his ship on some uncharted place and met the natives - they were absolutely unable to see the ship because they had never seen one before, so their eyes/brain did not perceive it. ...

FYI: There's an entire thread on this subject:

Natives Unable to See Magellan's Ships?

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/natives-unable-to-see-magellans-ships.27614/

 

[ghughesarch]

From discussion in one of the other rogue time slip threads floating about these boards, I submit the following :

A timeslip whilst driving near Piccadilly Circus:


Location: Piccadilly Circus, London

Date: Unknown

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: Glyn Jackson, an ex-boss ATS poster abacus10

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Visual – Change in Weather conditions observed.

Source of Testimony: A post in the Bizarre Time Slip Cases thread at Above Top Secret.

Description: Poster abacus10 claims that the following experience was once relayed to them by a former work Boss of theirs. To quote.:

This happened to my ex-boss, Glyn Jackson in London, England.

He remained silent about it for years as it had deeply disturbed him and changed his life.

Glyn's story is Highly believable as Glyn is person who lacks imagination on such a scale that he could not put together a grade one story for English to save his life.

Glyn was driving in central London up from Piccadilly Circus up Regent Street in heavy traffic. Regent Street, incidentally, although a major shopping centre, was built, originally, over 200 years ago during the reign of King George III.

Suddenly, Glyn's car hit a really, really bumpy part of the road and, for a moment, he thought that he had a flat tyre, and he braked sharply. But it was not a flat, simply the road surface had completely gone and been replaced with one of rough pebbles and dirt. At that instant, he noticed that the entire sky had changed and all the clouds were different. Also, he realised at this moment that all the stores had changed and had been replaced by small unknown ones and that all the people were dressed in 18th century costume. Furthermore, all the dense London traffic had disappeared and been replaced by just a few horse riders, coaches and carts.

In blind panic, Glyn slammed his car into reverse and hit the gas. His car hurtled backwards and a number of the 18th Century people began glancing around, clearly trying to make out what was happening as if they had never seen a car before the wheels of his car was sending pebbles and stones everywhere.

A few seconds later, suddenly, the street changed again, and Glyn narrowly missed driving backwards into the front of a car that had suddenly materialised behind him, and he realised that once again, he was back in today's London and its dense traffic jams.


abacus10 further added:


Incidentally, one other thing freaked out Glyn about this. Later, when he looked at his car, he found the paintwork on his car had the chips out of it where the wheels had spun on the stone chippings of the rough road surface.


Notes:


This story was posted to ATS in October 2013. Unfortunately, abacus10 has not been active on Above Top Secret since 2014. Further plying for information is unlikely to be possible. The poster speaks of this as something which occurred some years ago, but no date of the experience is given.

I’ve classified this as a Type 3 rather than 4, purely because Glyn did not interact with his surroundings directly. While he claimed to have experienced the rumble of driving over rough terrain this was experienced whilst he was inside the car. There is no suggestion that he touched it directly, and the assumption that this rumbling was caused by progressing onto a dirt road is an assumption which could plausibly be explained away by other mechanical problems with the car or changes to the surface of a road in the present day. A similar sensation could be experienced, for example, by driving over rough terrain where roadworks were occurring and old tarmac has been chipped away ahead or re-laying.

It is also far from conclusively provable that the chipped paintwork spoken of was caused by this incident. It impossible without speaking to Glyn to ascertain if he had inspected the paintwork before his journey, or if he had encountered anything else on his journey which could have caused this.

Without further description of the costumes or storefronts it is difficult to be sure which era these may
have belonged to. Abacus10 mentions the reign of George III and the 18th century, but it is unclear as to whether those are their own assertions or what Glyn believed, himself. Horses and coaches would fit with any pre-motorvehicle era, but more detailed descriptions of shopfronts and people’s attire would help to build a clearer picture.

It would be hard to conclusively say that people in the area were directly aware of seeing Glyn, as we have no direct testimony of them interacting with him – physically, verbally or through eye contact. Though obviously motor vehicles of any kind on London streets pre-1900 would have been a pretty odd - certainly a contemporary one. One might argue that the amount of dust and dirt kicked up by the car *may* have obscured it partly from view, but it would be unlikely to obscure it all.

This is not the only story we have heard of a potential Time Slip in the Piccadilly Circus area. In 1981 forum poster NumberNine had an experience at Piccadilly Tube Station of a cafe in the area they were unable to find on future visits as detailed here: http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-27#post-1725170

Hmmm. I know "18th century costume" is a broad term, but Regent Street was begun in 1813 and completed in 1825. The road surface was not as rough as seems to being described either.

 

[Schrodinger's Zebra]

FYI: There's an entire thread on this subject:

Natives Unable to See Magellan's Ships?

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/natives-unable-to-see-magellans-ships.27614/

Ah... thank you, I didn't know there was a thread. I shall add it to my 'pile' of threads to read.

 

[David Plankton]

Hmmm. I know "18th century costume" is a broad term, but Regent Street was begun in 1813 and completed in 1825. The road surface was not as rough as seems to being described either.

Could be just a misprint in the original account and they perhaps meant 1800's costume. What that looks like is anyones guess, a broad term as you say.

 

[Carl Grove]

Oh this is a good one, I like it. I wonder whether the 18th century people could in fact see his car at all - not because of obscured by dust, but because it wasn't something in their frame of reference so therefore their eyes couldn't see it - bear with me -

I'm thinking of something I read some time ago about when an explorer (might have been Captain Cook, that sort of person) landed his ship on some uncharted place and met the natives - they were absolutely unable to see the ship because they had never seen one before, so their eyes/brain did not perceive it.

So could the same be said of the 18th century people - they perhaps heard a noise which caused them to look around, but maybe didn't actually see the car?

Oh and - wouldn't it be good if we could find out what the car driver - back in the present day whom the witness almost reversed into - saw. What did he see from his POV? Did the car in front of him suddenly appear, or did he just become aware of it reversing toward him? Would have been even better if he'd had a dashcam. I guess too much time will have passed for there to be any remaining CCTV footage of the area in question.

Come to think of it, would have been even even better if the witness had recorded his 18th c. trip on a dashcam. Now that would be something.

Absolutely -- I am sure this would be in pre dashcam days, though. I still live in hopes of locating the right one out of over 40 Glyn Jacksons in the UK, although only 3 or 4 have replied to my attempts at contact! I suspect the following driver assumed afterwards that he had been daydreaming and somehow hadn't noticed that the car in front was reversing.. out of nowhere.

 

[Carl Grove]

Hmmm. I know "18th century costume" is a broad term, but Regent Street was begun in 1813 and completed in 1825. The road surface was not as rough as seems to being described either.

Wikipedia says that the northern section of Regent Street was built to replace the rundown Swallow Street, which may be what Jackson saw in its 18th C. form. I imagine the road surface in that period would have been pretty rough by modern standards.

 

[Schrodinger's Zebra]

I suspect the following driver assumed afterwards that he had been daydreaming and somehow hadn't noticed that the car in front was reversing.. out of nowhere.

True... easy to do when faced with something one can't explain. And makes me wonder how much 'weird stuff' never even gets reported at all because the witness told themselves they must be mistaken. Which of course in some cases that will be what happened; but not all of them.

 

[Carl Grove]

True... easy to do when faced with something one can't explain. And makes me wonder how much 'weird stuff' never even gets reported at all because the witness told themselves they must be mistaken. Which of course in some cases that will be what happened; but not all of them.

You're absolutely right. I've had very strange things happen and people I've been with seem not to have noticed them at all. I seem to recall a piece in FT where someone in the States saw a man carrying a miniature girl that appeared to be genuinely alive (rather than a doll or android) and the people he was with refused even to speak about it afterwards. One of the Rougham witnesses was totally betrayed by her husband, who refused to admit seeing the house himself, and even openly sneered at her while she was telling her story to the local historian (coincidence or not, they divorced soon afterwards).

 

[Schrodinger's Zebra]

You're absolutely right. I've had very strange things happen and people I've been with seem not to have noticed them at all. I seem to recall a piece in FT where someone in the States saw a man carrying a miniature girl that appeared to be genuinely alive (rather than a doll or android) and the people he was with refused even to speak about it afterwards. One of the Rougham witnesses was totally betrayed by her husband, who refused to admit seeing the house himself, and even openly sneered at her while she was telling her story to the local historian (coincidence or not, they divorced soon afterwards).

Wow... the miniature girl story sounds odd, don't think I've read that one. It's weird how vehemently some people will refuse to acknowledge something. I'd put it down to perhaps not all the people present actually do witness the same thing (after all, if every person's perception is slightly different, maybe they genuinely don't see it)

But if they are responding so strongly against it, that suggests to me that they did see the event, and are so shocked and it has upset their world view so much that denying it is the easiest option. The guy refusing to back his wife up to the point of sneering at her is bizarre. Not surprised they divorced.

 

[OrsonSwells]

From the little I know of the subject, most of these time slip stories seem to be fairly contemporaneous and involve "slipping" into the recent-ish past, a hundred or so years at most. I just wondered if there are any much older reports of time slips that I've not heard of. Or reports of time slips into the very distant past. Forgive my ignorance if I am incorrect!

 

[Carl Grove]

From the little I know of the subject, most of these time slip stories seem to be fairly contemporaneous and involve "slipping" into the recent-ish past, a hundred or so years at most. I just wondered if there are any much older reports of time slips that I've not heard of. Or reports of time slips into the very distant past. Forgive my ignorance if I am incorrect!

There are a few cases where people saw scenes, often battles, from the dark ages or medieval times, also a few of Roman soldiers. The record is an estimated 10,000 years reported by a native American seer, James Two Hats. I got a very detailed account from him which I included in my Rougham Mystery report (link higher up this page). Perhaps a report where two girls reported a brief entry into a landscape that seemed geologically ancient where the air seemed scorching and hard to breathe goes back even further but detail is lacking.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Perhaps a report where two girls reported a brief entry into a landscape that seemed geologically ancient where the air seemed scorching and hard to breathe goes back even further but detail is lacking.

Sounds like they were transported back to a time when there was a lot more CO2 in the air.

 

[Carl Grove]

Sounds like they were transported back to a time when there was a lot more CO2 in the air.

Yes, could be. Also they were on a bridge if I remember right, and the scene was now on the same level, implying a lot of erosion maybe.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Wikipedia says that the northern section of Regent Street was built to replace the rundown Swallow Street, which may be what Jackson saw in its 18th C. form. I imagine the road surface in that period would have been pretty rough by modern standards.

That is certainly worth considering. While we may not be talking about some kind of old country dirt road, even main London roads of the 1800s would have been notably less smooth than what we know today. One way or another switching from tarmac to anything else would be noticeable.

From the little I know of the subject, most of these time slip stories seem to be fairly contemporaneous and involve "slipping" into the recent-ish past, a hundred or so years at most. I just wondered if there are any much older reports of time slips that I've not heard of. Or reports of time slips into the very distant past. Forgive my ignorance if I am incorrect!

The only one I can think of which we discussed on this thread was a story from the 1950s, concerning a small village in Angus, Scotland. In which a woman claimed to have slipped back to the time of the Battle of Nechtanesmere, in 685 AD.

The post for that can be found here: http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-28#post-1726271

 

[CuriousIdent]

From the other Time Slips thread:

A vanishing house in Oklahoma

Location: Ponca City, Oklahoma

Date: Autumn 1971

Type: Type 2: A clear sharp and totally realistic visual image. A witness will see it and have no idea that it is anything other than an ordinary image.

Persons Involved: Karl, Mark and Gordon – three men working for a cattle feed distributor.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.

Source of Testimony: An article ‘Cases of Time Slips’ by Jason Offutt on mysteriousuniverse.org, from November 2012.

Description: Offutt describes a story of three men – named only as ‘Karl,’ ‘Mark’ and ‘Gordon’ who in the early 1970s were working for a cattle feed distributor in Ponca City, Oklahoma.

One Autumn day in 1971 all three were charged with collecting a feeder tank from a relatively remote farm lot in the city.

Karl explained that upon arrival “We opened the gate, which was barbed wire with no lock, and entered. We went on the property, which was covered with grass up to and over the hood of the truck.”

Reportedly the three ploughed their vehicle through the tall grass until they reached the tank which they had been charged with collecting, which had been left sitting close by to a red coloured barn on the property. But getting out of the truck and inspecting it they realised that they had a problem.

“We realized the tank was almost half full and too heavy to load,” Karl accounts. They were driving a white Ford pickup truck. It wasn’t capable of towing that kind of load.

“We decided to leave and drove around the red barn and we saw a large, two story white house, with no lights in front of us,” and with that all three drove back to the cattle feed company. When they got there they explained the situation to their boss. He promised to organise getting the tank drained and that they could pick it up the following day.

Karl accounts, “We went to the location to retrieve the tank the next night. This time we decided to go through the old white big house on the hill and brought our shotguns.”

They drove onto the property over the path their pickup had carved through the grass the day before, pulled up to barn and attached the now drained tank to their vehicle. They then pulled around the side of the barn, and on towards the house.

Only the house was not there.

“It was no longer there,” Karl claims, “We walked up the hill where it stood and there were no signs of demolition, no foundation, nothing at all. What we all seemed to witness the night before was no longer there. We have talked to each other over the years but none of us can begin to explain this vision.”


Notes:

Offutt’s slightly more dramatic telling of this story uses phrases such as describing that the men "were sent to this remote area to pick up a feeder. What they found there has kept them silent for 41 years".

As to whether that is actually true is debatable, given that Karl himself admits the three have talked to each other about it, over the years.

It is also a little unclear as to what was going on with this farm lot. Was it an abandoned or foreclosed property? The grass being quite so tall. The three returning to snoop around the house on their return visit.

Karl describes the house as “a large, two story white house, with no lights”. As to whether the lack of lights was intended to suggest that it was abandoned is unclear. The necessity of shotguns definitely sounded as if they intended to search through the house as if was abandoned, but this is not specified in this article.

It’s also unclear as to what kind of distance the house in question was in relation to the barn. It is unclear as to whether it was it even on the same lot. It is only in reference to the return journey that Karl mentions it having been located on a hill. So while it may have been visible whilst passing around the barn on their first journey it may have been more a case of it being ‘on the horizon’ than right in front of them.

“there were no signs of demolition, no foundation, nothing at all” it would be interesting to know exactly where in Ponca City this was, to trace if there ever had been a house of that size in the area.

Jason Offutt teaches journalism at Northwest Missouri State University in Maryville. He has written fiction and non-fiction, including 4 books on the paranormal (which include two specific to the state of Missouri). His personal website is http://www.jasonoffutt.com

 

[Carl Grove]

That is certainly worth considering. While we may not be talking about some kind of old country dirt road, even main London roads of the 1800s would have been notably less smooth than what we know today. One way or another switching from tarmac to anything else would be noticeable.




The only one I can think of which we discussed on this thread was a story from the 1950s, concerning a small village in Angus, Scotland. In which there is debate over whether the woman herself had slipped back to the time of the Battle of Nechtanesmere, in 685 AD.

The post for that can be found here: http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-28#post-1726271

Not forgetting that right up to late Victorian times young lads made a living as crossing sweepers, brushing paths across the roads so ladies wouldn't get their crinolines covered with mud or horse manure.

 

[Carl Grove]

From the other Time Slips thread:

A vanishing house in Oklahoma

Location: Ponca City, Oklahoma

Date: Autumn 1971

Type: Type 2: A clear sharp and totally realistic visual image. A witness will see it and have no idea that it is anything other than an ordinary image.

Persons Involved: Karl, Mark and Gordon – three men working for a cattle feed distributor.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.

Source of Testimony: An article ‘Cases of Time Slips’ by Jason Offutt on mysteriousuniverse.org, from November 2012.

Description: Offutt describes a story of three men – named only as ‘Karl,’ ‘Mark’ and ‘Gordon’ who in the early 1970s were working for a cattle feed distributor in Ponca City, Oklahoma.

One Autumn day in 1971 all three were charged with collecting a feeder tank from a relatively remote farm lot in the city.

Karl explained that upon arrival “We opened the gate, which was barbed wire with no lock, and entered. We went on the property, which was covered with grass up to and over the hood of the truck.”

Reportedly the three ploughed their vehicle through the tall grass until they reached the tank which they had been charged with collecting, which had been left sitting close by to a red coloured barn on the property. But getting out of the truck and inspecting it they realised that they had a problem.

“We realized the tank was almost half full and too heavy to load,” Karl accounts. They were driving a white Ford pickup truck. It wasn’t capable of towing that kind of load.

“We decided to leave and drove around the red barn and we saw a large, two story white house, with no lights in front of us,” and with that all three drove back to the cattle feed company. When they got there they explained the situation to their boss. He promised to organise getting the tank drained and that they could pick it up the following day.

Karl accounts, “We went to the location to retrieve the tank the next night. This time we decided to go through the old white big house on the hill and brought our shotguns.”

They drove onto the property over the path their pickup had carved through the grass the day before, pulled up to barn and attached the now drained tank to their vehicle. They then pulled around the side of the barn, and on towards the house.

Only the house was not there.

“It was no longer there,” Karl claims, “We walked up the hill where it stood and there were no signs of demolition, no foundation, nothing at all. What we all seemed to witness the night before was no longer there. We have talked to each other over the years but none of us can begin to explain this vision.”


Notes:

Offutt’s slightly more dramatic telling of this story uses phrases such as describing that the men "were sent to this remote area to pick up a feeder. What they found there has kept them silent for 41 years".

As to whether that is actually true is debatable, given that Karl himself admits the three have talk to each other about it, over the years.

It is also a little unclear as to what was going on with this farm lot. Was it an abandoned or foreclosed property? The grass being quite so tall. The three returning to snoop around the house on their return visit.

Karl describes the house as “a large, two story white house, with no lights”. As to whether the lack of lights was intended to suggest that it was abandoned is unclear. The necessity of shotguns definitely sounded as if they intended to search through the house as if was abandoned, but this is not specified in this article.

It’s also unclear as to what kind of distance the house in question was in relation to the barn. It is unclear as to whether it was it even on the same lot. It is only in reference to the return journey that Karl mentions it having been located on a hill. So while it may have been visible whilst passing around the barn on their first journey it may have been more a case of it being ‘on the horizon’ than right in front of them.

“there were no signs of demolition, no foundation, nothing at all” it would be interesting to know exactly where in Ponca City this was, to trace if there ever had been a house of that size in the area.

Jason Offutt teaches journalism at Northwest Missouri State University in Maryville. He has written fiction and non-fiction, including 4 books on the paranormal (which include two specific to the state of Missouri). His personal website is http://www.jasonoffutt.com

Good summary and useful info about the writer. It's unfortunate that hardly anyone summarising these cases ever tries to locate the exact location, much less provides local mapping.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Good summary and useful info about the writer. It's unfortunate that hardly anyone summarising these cases ever tries to locate the exact location, much less provides local mapping.

You could always try contacting the writer for more information?

 

[Carl Grove]

You could always try contacting the writer for more information?

Good idea -- I have emailed him and we'll see what happens..

 

[Carl Grove]

No reply, I'm afraid...

 

[Carl Grove]

Unfortunately, he has no more info about that case -- he presented all the details that the witness provided, and doesn't seem to have any contact details.