Time Or Dimensional Slips

[charliebrown]

You know we have recycled back to 1938.

Europe at war, bad inflation, and the rise of extremism.

Time has reversed.

 

[Carl Grove]

Another thing that has always interested me about these accounts is that, if the witnesses stayed at the location would they keep 'in the loop' forever and what sort of operating radius do they have. In the French account, they were obviously able to move about the hotel at least and from the car to the building but if one of them had walked a little further outside would they have vanished to the (then) present. Following on from that, if one of the other witnesses were just behind, would they see them vanish?

Looking at this question it has seemed to me that there are usually definite boundaries to the time slip. In the famous Kersey case the cadets saw the village from a distance with smoke rising from chimneys and the church bell sounding, but once they passed a certain point the smoke vanished, the church bell was silent, and the season changed from winter to spring. And when they left (in a hurry) the same thing happened in reverse. Or the boundary may be separating two roads, or the slip may be confined to just one building or even a room. This is what makes me think that time slips are basically glitches in the matrix.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Looking at this question it has seemed to me that there are usually definite boundaries to the time slip. In the famous Kersey case the cadets saw the village from a distance with smoke rising from chimneys and the church bell sounding, but once they passed a certain point the smoke vanished, the church bell was silent, and the season changed from winter to spring. And when they left (in a hurry) the same thing happened in reverse. Or the boundary may be separating two roads, or the slip may be confined to just one building or even a room. This is what makes me think that time slips are basically glitches in the matrix.

Forum member Ruth Roper-Wilde has written about a nighttime time slip/ghost car case witnessed by a other and son whilst driving. What is fascinating is that the light from the moon , streetlights and headlights was being curved downwards in a defined arc by an unseen force. To my mind that suggests gravity.

Another interesting find about Montélimar is that is was recently at the centre of a very unusual shallow earthquake:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1195157580814979073

“A possible scenario for the Mw4.9 #Montelimar #earthquake (France) that involves a very shallow reverse faulting with a small strike-slip component along 4 km, in agreement with the solution propose”

So we can add unusual geology and a shallow active fault line to the list of possible reasons

 

[Carl Grove]

Forum member Ruth Roper-Wilde has written about a nighttime time slip/ghost car case witnessed by a other and son whilst driving. What is fascinating is that the light from the moon , streetlights and headlights was being curved downwards in a defined arc by an unseen force. To my mind that suggests gravity.

Another interesting find about Montélimar is that is was recently at the centre of a very unusual shallow earthquake:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1195157580814979073

“A possible scenario for the Mw4.9 #Montelimar #earthquake (France) that involves a very shallow reverse faulting with a small strike-slip component along 4 km, in agreement with the solution propose”

So we can add unusual geology and a shallow active fault line to the list of possible reasons

That adds weight to the role of geological faulting in modulating the earth energy and producing odd events (time slips and UFOs included).

 

[Paul_Exeter]

*Bump*

After some in-depth research, a fellow forum member has made contact with the children of one of the now-deceased couples and politely requested their thoughts on this fascinating case and the involvement of their parents. I do not feel that posting the personal details of these individuals all over the internet is the right thing to do, but I can say we are both confident that at least one of these two children (now adult, of course) has received the written request for their feedback. As of yet, they have chosen not to respond.

 

[BS3]

Update:

Have discovered a possible new contender for the Gisby/Simpson hotel. It is located south of Montélimar on the RN7 yet according to Google maps is just an 18 minute drive from the Ibis hotel (formerly motel) that we know to be their starting point.

What is exciting is that it is an old, seemingly abandoned hotel with just a single 'Hotel" sign as per the description given by the Gisbys and Simpsons. It also has one shuttered window partly open and I cannot see any sign of glass. Furthermore, it is opposite what may be th remains of a filling station that is now being used a a lorry park.

It is located on the Route N7 at the junction with the Chem. du Devès minor road

Here is a link:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...dc8c2bf0416d57b7!8m2!3d44.5170954!4d4.7450149

The address is:

1555 N7, 26780 Châteauneuf-du-Rhône, France

The sign up the side road, while heavily faded, has the words "Hotel" "Restaurant" and "Auberge [something] Pelican" on it. Maybe it could be identified in directories? Could they have approached from one of the side roads, hence the whole cobbled lane thing?

I feel this one has to have a fairly simple explanation given the hotel's apparent solidity.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

The sign up the side road, while heavily faded, has the words "Hotel" "Restaurant" and "Auberge [something] Pelican" on it. Maybe it could be identified in directories? Could they have approached from one of the side roads, hence the whole cobbled lane thing?

I feel this one has to have a fairly simple explanation given the hotel's apparent solidity.

Yes, it is interesting that the name of the hotel is on the side wall and not the front of the building. In the Arthur C Clarke reconstruction, Geoff Simpson's narrative suggests they parked across the road by the petrol station, so perhaps they only ever noticed the simple 'hotel' sign on the front as per the original account. It is also feasible that they became confused and didn't take the N7 but rather one of the narrow back roads that loop around and back to this road. The N7 was the original 'route to the sun' and thus unlikely to have been cobbled even in 1905-ish.

As posted previously, I believe the guesthouse they visit in the reconstruction is this building on the N7 route:

33 N7
26740 La Coucorde
France

The now-abandoned hotel that is the prime candidate for the actual hotel:

1555 N7, 26780 Châteauneuf-du-Rhône, France

... is further down the same route, which would explain why during the reconstruction the witnesses reported feeling they were on the correct road but not in the right place

 

[BS3]

It is also feasible that they became confused and didn't take the N7 but rather one of the narrow back roads that loop around and back to this road.

This is what I was thinking. I've had the experience of driving past buildings I've been unable to relocate, and I'm pretty sure it's always down to a minor confusion over the route. They seem to have been at the end of a long day and following verbally relayed instructions in an unfamiliar area - surely a recipe for this. The hotel you have found is a great match for the description.

I'm not sure about the other stuff that was reported, but finding bolsters and similarly old fashioned bedding in cheap French hotels was common enough even in the 1990s in my experience.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Just to reiterate, on Google maps if you go alongside this hotel and zoom in on the single upstairs window shutters that are half open, it really does appear to be double-shuttered inside and out but without glass, as per the description of the time-slip hotel, what do forum members think? If it is the case there is no glass then this would eliminate one of the main planks of evidence for a time-slip

 

[Paul_Exeter]

This is what I was thinking. I've had the experience of driving past buildings I've been unable to relocate, and I'm pretty sure it's always down to a minor confusion over the route. They seem to have been at the end of a long day and following verbally relayed instructions in an unfamiliar area - surely a recipe for this. The hotel you have found is a great match for the description.

I'm not sure about the other stuff that was reported, but finding bolsters and similarly old fashioned bedding in cheap French hotels was common enough even in the 1990s in my experience.

Especially as in 1979 the area had been in steep economic decline for a decade following the opening of the autoroute that saw many shops and petrol stations on the N7 go under.

There would have been a real sense of the past slipping away within this community as the reality of the new autoroute hit their livelihoods, so understandable perhaps if there was a bit of dressing up in the clothes of a happier bygone age for some festival or other.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

A screenshot of the shuttered window is attached:

 

[BS3]

Just to reiterate, on Google maps if you go alongside this hotel and zoom in on the single upstairs window shutters that are half open, it really does appear to be double-shuttered inside and out but without glass, as per the description of the time-slip hotel, what do forum members think? If it is the case there is no glass then this would eliminate one of the main planks of evidence for a time-slip

Absolutely. I think the lack of glass would be uncommon by that point and I'd perhaps be surprised to find it in a hotel that was hoping to attract passing tourists, but there's nothing else about the description, such as the food or bedding, that seems out of place for the 70s.

That leaves the small bill, but who's to say the person serving didn't make some kind of error?

As for the circus advertisement - a friend described once seeing a rural travelling circus in France, the family-run kind that went round small towns entertaining the locals, and the whole experience sounded decidedly old fashioned.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Absolutely. I think the lack of glass would be uncommon by that point and I'd perhaps be surprised to find it in a hotel that was hoping to attract passing tourists, but there's nothing else about the description, such as the food or bedding, that seems out of place for the 70s.

That leaves the small bill, but who's to say the person serving didn't make some kind of error?

As for the circus advertisement - a friend described once seeing a rural travelling circus in France, the family-run kind that went round small towns entertaining the locals, and the whole experience sounded decidedly old fashioned.

I worked in the hotel trade for over 20 years and such errors were certainly not uncommon. One possibility is that the bill was for the alcohol only (they drank lager from jugs) as the hotelier mistakenly believed they had payed for Dinner, Bed and Breakfast on arrival

 

[BS3]

https://rendezvousnationale7.fr/site/etape13/etape13d.htm

It was the Auberge du Grand Pelican!

Interior picture at the link above

 

[Paul_Exeter]

https://rendezvousnationale7.fr/site/etape13/etape13d.htm

It was the Auberge du Grand Pelican!

Interior picture at the link above

Great find...! I have been busy researching the history of glass windows in the Mediterranean region without a conclusive result, so is that glass in the window of the photo in your link or internal shutters...?

So interesting to see the old-fashioned petrol pump, there were the rusted remnants of one in our village in the 1970s. Evidently the was once quite a plush hotel that has fallen on hard times.

Translation:

As we have seen previously, the improvement of the road network and the establishment of royal paths recommended by royal ordinance, brought from the second half of the 18th century,
the proliferation of country inns outside the cities, as indicated by the very character of their architecture.

At the end of the 18th century, it was increasingly difficult for wagoners, stagecoach travelers and other horse-drawn carriages to circulate in the narrow streets of the old fortified cities and even more so to stop in hotels with difficult access, the cramped stables and sheds, the insufficient premises to accommodate all the ro-ro crews

The latter will gradually, and with good reason, prefer the inns with vast outbuildings erected on the edge of the Grand' Route, well within their reach and infinitely better suited to the development of cumbersome harnessed vehicles.

Where does this astonishing name of Pélican come from, which today designates this district located between Montélimar and Donzère?

Around 1750 the route of the royal road was rectified at the exit of Montélimar, it now turned away from Châteauneuf, in a wide straight road.
The Auberge du Pélican was built in 1780 along this new axis.
The owner of this inn also had a shop under the "Pélican" sign in rue Bouverie in Montélimar.
The shop also rubbed shoulders with the "Wild Man" jewelry store and the "Chained Dog" haberdashery.

This name of Pelican, no doubt a mascot, was therefore naturally attributed to the sign of this new inn.
The owner built a second inn nearby which took the name of Petit Pélican, from then on the first Pelican inn became the Grand Pelican inn.

The study of cadastral maps informs us of the existence of only three inns between Montélimar and Donzère at the end of the 18th century:

the "Grand Pélican", the new Pelican called "Petit Pélican" and the Auberge de Pagnères at the foot of the Montée de Bel Air.

 

[BS3]

Another detail - the soaps on the wall that the Simpsons found amusing are in fact still made and still available (should you wish to recreate your own time slip hotel ambience).

 

[BS3]

Great find...! I have been busy researching the history of glass windows in the Mediterranean region without a conclusive result, so is that glass in the window of the photo in your link or internal shutters...?

So interesting to see the old-fashioned petrol pump, there were the rusted remnants of one in our village in the 1970s. Evidently the was once quite a plush hotel that has fallen on hard times.

Difficult to see whether it's glass or not. I note that the building surprisingly dates from as early as 1780, though, so if its owners had been trying to preserve the historic details then it would have had some potentially very old features.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

A caption under one of the modern day photos states the hotel has been closed for "several decades".

If we take this as a fact, then this hotel closed not long after the Gisbys and Simpsons were in the area, and thus was perhaps already very run down. Maybe the glass in the bedroom windows had become broken/frames rotten and the near-destitute hotelier had simply removed them and left the shutters only...?

This is the best match I can find for the petrol pump in the link. Pumps of this kind were manufactured in the 1930s:

http://www.petroliana.co.uk/View.asp?ID=4339

FRENCH COURTIOUX VISIBLE PUMP​

Unusual French visible pump with removable handle for security when not in use. Restored with paintwork patinated.

Make: Courtioux
Brand: Avia
Year: 1930's
Category: Petrol Pump
Collection: Alan Chandler

 

[Paul_Exeter]

https://rendezvousnationale7.fr/site/etape13/etape13d.htm

It was the Auberge du Grand Pelican!

Interior picture at the link above

Indeed, you can buy them on the French Amazon site:

https://www.amazon.fr/BARBACADO-rotatif-écolier-fabrication-Française/dp/B01FPX7RDY/ref=sxin_24_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-cG9ydGUgc2F2b24gbXVyYWw=-ac_d_rm_rm_rm&cv_ct_cx=porte+savon+mural&keywords=porte+savon+mural&pd_rd_i=B01FPX7RDY&pd_rd_r=190763ac-f379-4047-9873-758b58ce5286&pd_rd_w=34Q0p&pd_rd_wg=JPmT8&pf_rd_p=23697e12-427b-4c87-811a-81f5f8851641&pf_rd_r=HA49E2EMYNR2PPQ4DYWF&psc=1&qid=1647707270&sr=1-1-fe323411-17bb-433b-b2f8-c44f2e1370d4

So that is the soap ruled out as time-slip evidence.

Perhaps we need to remind ourselves that during the Arthur C Clarke 1980s reconstruction Geoff Simpson walks across a modern petrol station forecourt and makes a clear reference to having been on the same or a similar petrol station forecourt in 1979 after arriving opposite the hotel. I have to say this caused me to have serious doubts about the time-slip theory as other accounts had painted a far more rural picture. So things now become problematic as you have Len Gisby stood outside the hotel in 1979 and next to a petrol station (remember, the petrol station was there during their arrival) taking a photo of his wife in the window of a hotel whilst she was supposedly stuck in 1905-ish

 

[BS3]

One thing about the Auberge du Grand Pelican is that it's not adjacent to a current or possible former police station.

However, looking at the inn itself, I find myself wondering if they could have mistaken the frontage / range along the side road, which has the appearance of a neat late 18th century French house, for a police station given the large formal pediment over its main door, and assumed that only the more rustic frontage along N7 was the inn. It was dark, after all.

On the subject of shuttered windows without glass I don't seem to be able to find much either - there do seem to be some examples in lower status buildings even in the 20th century, but I think as a long-established and fairly respectable stopping place I'd have expected there to be glass here as well as shutters.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Good point, especially as they didn’t set foot in the police station.

As a Fortean I do believe in the time-slip phenomenon, however, I feel this case really pushes the boundaries of time-slip reports due to its duration and I am not without my doubts. However, I also find it fascinating and am a bit nostalgic for the 1970s of my youth and thus I find myself drawn to it again and again. The more we can discover about this case and the location then the greater the chance we can either substantiate or disprove this single case

 

[BS3]

Good point, especially as they didn’t set foot in the police station.

As a Fortean I do believe in the time-slip phenomenon, however, I feel this case really pushes the boundaries of time-slip reports due to its duration and I am not without my doubts. However, I also find it fascinating and am a bit nostalgic for the 1970s of my youth and thus I find myself drawn to it again and again. The more we can discover about this case and the location then the greater the chance we can either substantiate or disprove this single case

Yes, I'm open minded on 'time slips' but ones involving a sustained physical interaction (eg buying something) seem dubious.

I suppose the chances of the precise combination of things that led to the couples perceiving the hotel as anomalous (e.g. a possible group of people in historic costume using the dining area next morning) are very small, but I suppose that's one reason that Fortean experiences are rare.

 

[catseye]

This is what I was thinking. I've had the experience of driving past buildings I've been unable to relocate, and I'm pretty sure it's always down to a minor confusion over the route. They seem to have been at the end of a long day and following verbally relayed instructions in an unfamiliar area - surely a recipe for this. The hotel you have found is a great match for the description.

I'm not sure about the other stuff that was reported, but finding bolsters and similarly old fashioned bedding in cheap French hotels was common enough even in the 1990s in my experience.

I actually lived in France for a while in the late 70's, and we had bolsters but no pillows on the beds then.

 

[BS3]

Indeed, you can buy them on the French Amazon site:

https://www.amazon.fr/BARBACADO-rotatif-écolier-fabrication-Française/dp/B01FPX7RDY/ref=sxin_24_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-cG9ydGUgc2F2b24gbXVyYWw=-ac_d_rm_rm_rm&cv_ct_cx=porte+savon+mural&keywords=porte+savon+mural&pd_rd_i=B01FPX7RDY&pd_rd_r=190763ac-f379-4047-9873-758b58ce5286&pd_rd_w=34Q0p&pd_rd_wg=JPmT8&pf_rd_p=23697e12-427b-4c87-811a-81f5f8851641&pf_rd_r=HA49E2EMYNR2PPQ4DYWF&psc=1&qid=1647707270&sr=1-1-fe323411-17bb-433b-b2f8-c44f2e1370d4

So that is the soap ruled out as time-slip evidence.

Perhaps we need to remind ourselves that during the Arthur C Clarke 1980s reconstruction Geoff Simpson walks across a modern petrol station forecourt and makes a clear reference to having been on the same or a similar petrol station forecourt in 1979 after arriving opposite the hotel. I have to say this caused me to have serious doubts about the time-slip theory as other accounts had painted a far more rural picture. So things now become problematic as you have Len Gisby stood outside the hotel in 1979 and next to a petrol station (remember, the petrol station was there during their arrival) taking a photo of his wife in the window of a hotel whilst she was supposedly stuck in 1905-ish

The adjacent petrol station is an odd touch. I wonder if in the 70s there were still a couple of pumps outside the hotel (as you sometimes used to get in the UK years ago), the successors of the one in the 1949 picture, and Gisby interpreted this as a "petrol station"

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Going back to the “plush motel” with the worker in the odd plum-coloured suit who gave them directions to the hotel. From the reconstruction, I had thought this to be the Ibis on the autoroute north of Montelimar. However, having perused the link BS3 posted it now transpires there was a chain of motels in the 1970s/80s called Les Autoroutes and one was situated near Montelimar:

https://flic.kr/p/6eP8rA

Note the shade of the red theme used on the exterior, for signage and perhaps for the uniforms…? The narrative states this worker was not known to the motel staff two weeks later, however neither couple spoke French so how accurate was this information?

Furthermore, a little research demonstrated that plum red is a colour commonly associated with bellboy uniforms In the US, and European motels were essentially copying the US format. I worked in a British motel in 1984-89 (now a hotel) and we used to bring in part-time porters (bellboys) for busy periods

 

[BS3]

One potential aspect of this case is that if Gisby and Simpson were used to staying in the sort of modern establishment above on their trip, then a genuinely old fashioned French hotel might well seem a lot more 'foreign' and quaint. I've no idea if the cheap hotels of my youth still exist in France (at the time they were usually in the 100F a night range for a double, about £10) but in those you could find any amount of ancient furniture, bolsters, strange toilet arrangements etc, and few of the other guests were older English tourists.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

The adjacent petrol station is an odd touch. I wonder if in the 70s there were still a couple of pumps outside the hotel (as you sometimes used to get in the UK years ago), the successors of the one in the 1949 picture, and Gisby interpreted this as a "petrol station"

Most of the petrol stations along the N7 closed down after the opening of the autoroute (see the link by BS3 for an example).. There is possibly the remains of a defunct forecourt now being used as a lorry park opposite the hotel.

The petrol station that featured in the reconstruction now appears to be some sort of garden centre, however you can still see the entrance and exit from the former forecourt.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

One potential aspect of this case is that if Gisby and Simpson were used to staying in the sort of modern establishment above on their trip, then a genuinely old fashioned French hotel might well seem a lot more 'foreign' and quaint. I've no idea if the cheap hotels of my youth still exist in France (at the time they were usually in the 100F a night range for a double, about £10) but in those you could find any amount of ancient furniture, bolsters, strange toilet arrangements etc, and few of the other guests were older English tourists.

Interesting that the 'official' narrative wants us to believe that only a 1905-ish time-slip hotel would offer accommodation for the rates you are stating. If it can be conclusively demonstrated that rural small hotels/guesthouses were charging about £10 a night for a double in 1979 then suddenly another pillar of the time-slip theory begins to crumble.

Indeed, the soap and the bedding have now been shown to have been around in France in 1979. We may have found the buildings involved (motel, guesthouse and hotel).I am researching the history of the Les Autoroute motels to see if I can see any colour uniform images. It is starting to feel as if the evidence for the time-slip is, well, slipping away...

One thing that has now come to my attention is the lack of place names provided by the Gisbys and Simpsons, even in the Jenny Randles account (who is a diligent researcher). Other than the autoroute and Montelimar, we have a motel, road, an Inn, police station and hotel all with no names, not only in the initial account but also in the return visit. I appreciate the initial journey was at night, but the motel will have been clearly identifiable at night and the return journey was during the day (never mind the reconstruction). Was this seemingly intentional withholding of information because one or both couples planned to write and publish an account of their own...?

 

[ghughesarch]

There does appear to be glass in the windows from the 2019 streetview https://goo.gl/maps/kesLKE1i3QKHmMDE6
The French equivalent of Companies House records Auberge du Grand Pelican as having been set up as a company on 1 January 1960 and dissolved 15 October 2007 https://www.societe.com/etablissement/auberge-du-grand-pelican-60297055000011.html

 

[BS3]

There does appear to be glass in the windows from the 2019 streetview https://goo.gl/maps/kesLKE1i3QKHmMDE6
The French equivalent of Companies House records Auberge du Grand Pelican as having been set up as a company on 1 January 1960 and dissolved 15 October 2007 https://www.societe.com/etablissement/auberge-du-grand-pelican-60297055000011.html

Presumably that was the timeframe of its last set of owner/s (including perhaps those at the time of the couples' visit?) It looks to me like it could have been closed for longer than 15 years or so.