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Where Does It Come From? Origins Of Phrases & Expressions

Frideswide said:
no, no they aren't
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Victory said:
Not the same as that use of vanilla, as @Frideswide has pointed out.
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Ah, but I wonder... whilst it must be correct to say that vanilla ≠ custard, I've just discovered that there is such a thing as "vanilla custard", in a related naming style similar to "egg custard" (note: until now I only knew of custard as being a homogenous yellow pudding, and slapstick stage tool).

In the online business meeting I was in, I didn't get to hear the woman who mentioned "custard procurement" to say anything other than that single clear statement: but on consideration, she might have had a slight eastern European accent. I wonder if she had unconsciously synonymised the words, thus producing an accidental idiom?

Or: might it be the case that in some other languages of the world, the words 'vanilla' and 'custard' ARE synonyms? (nb this is just sheer conjecture).

Victory said:
It might be used to describe a "Custard pie procurement" as something that was farcical.
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An excellent and insightful suggestion: but whilst in life such circumstances can often be the outcome, this most-assuredly was not the intent (verbally, personally or collectively).

Business meetings do tend to be incubators of neologisms & caricature phraseology, so let's see if this usage of custard obtains 'wider leverage' when/if it ever 'goes viral offline'....please do 'reach out to me' if you hear it in the wild.
 
Ermintruder said:
Or: might it be the case that in some other languages of the world, the words 'vanilla' and 'custard' ARE synonyms? (nb this is just sheer conjecture).
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Thank you for providing me with this rare opportunity to shoehorn in my Latin dictionary anecdote. :curt:

Browsing a school Latin dictionary, possibly for obscenities as teenagers do, I came across the entry for custard, for which there is no direct Latin translation. Custard hadn't been invented.

I found this hilarious but nobody else was interested. :dunno:
 
Ermintruder said:
Ah, but I wonder... whilst it must be correct to say that vanilla ≠ custard, I've just discovered that there is such a thing as "vanilla custard", in a related naming style similar to "egg custard" (note: until now I only knew of custard as being a homogenous yellow pudding, and slapstick stage tool).
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There are several modes of custard delivery, all flavoured with vanilla.

You get your school dinners powdered custard, then there's the same stuff but made with fresh ingredients, and the solider type called 'confectioner's custard' that's found in cakes.

Confectioner's custard is made with a high proportion of egg yolks and sets to a purée consistency.
Vanilla slices are made by baking the pastry first and assembling the cakes with a layer of cooled confectioner's custard.

Egg custards have a pre-baked pastry case with the custard baked slowly inside them.

Theatrical custard pies are made of water, shaving soap (not foam, actual soap bars, finely grated) and glycerol.

Mmmm, custard.
 
escargot said:
'Don't start!'

Where I live, if someone is starting, they are jumping into an argument.
Probably the same as everywhere else in Britain.

However, locally the entire expression is 'Don't start yer act!', 'act' meaning 'performance', or a well-rehearsed procedure.
The argument is an old one that has been held many times before.

Thusly:
- I'm goin' down t'Black 'orse for a jar.
- Oh yeah, just the one, but it's never just the one is it! Eh? Eh?
- (rolling eyes) Don't start yer act!

Had this same conversation, usually in the truncated form, sooo many times. :chuckle:
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And of course there's also acting up as in ''oh no, Sollywos is acting up again'' or ''the bloody car is acting up again'' meaning that Sollywos is causing problems/trouble of some kind and the car is not working properly.
 
Floyd1 said:
And of course there's also acting up as in ''oh no, Sollywos is acting up again'' or ''the bloody car is acting up again'' meaning that Sollywos is causing problems/trouble of some kind and the car is not working properly.
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In a previous job, having never heard that phrase before, I had to learn that 'acting up' could mean either causing problems/trouble or standing in for an absent senior staff member: an actual position called Acting 'Up'.

If you arrived on duty and asked Who's Actin' Up? you'd get a reply dependent on the context. Never got me'ead round that. :chuckle:
 
Floyd1 said:
Ah, I've not heard that one.
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It might've been an in-joke expressing contempt for temporary bosses. 'Acting up' could suggest actin' uppity*, i.e. above oneself.

*'Uppity' isn't a word much used in British English. It has racist connotations in American usage. As Techy has American colleagues I've advised him to never, ever speak it to them.
This came up because he once used it, surprisingly I thought, in a conversation with me.
 
escargot said:
*'Uppity' isn't a word much used in British English. It has racist connotations in American usage. As Techy has American colleagues I've advised him to never, ever speak it to them.
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Sad to say, it is increasing in the uk, usually by the "well I don't mean it like that so it's totally fine, people-of-THAT-type are always looking for trouble and getting above themselves" brigade.
 
Floyd1 said:
escargot said:
an actual position called Acting 'Up'.
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Ah, I've not heard that one
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This must have its origins in the military.

When someone is 'acting up' (ie one rank above their substantive rank) this is the eponymous term used.

For example, a Lance Corporal might wear the rank of a Corporal (ie two chevrons instead of one), and therefore have the responsibilities & most of the privileges of that rank, but not the pay...because they're just 'acting up'.

These two 'tapes' (worn on the arm, shoulder or centre chest) indicating the rank of Corporal are the visual identifier of someone who is known (colloquially, by peers and subordinates) as a "full screw".

Once becoming substantive as a Corporal, such an individual can dream of attaining their "third" (ie 3rd chevron, should they ever become a Sergeant), or even eventually gaining their "crown" (ie three chevrons surmounted by a crown, which is the rank worn by Colour Sgts, Staff Sgts & Flight Sgts....this is all British & Commonwealth usage, I've never been educated on United States informal terms for such rank gradations)
 
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escargot said:
I had to learn that 'acting up' could mean either causing problems/trouble or standing in for an absent senior staff member
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This has made me wonder: is there such a thing as a phrasal equivalent to a contranym? That is, the name for a phase which has two contradictory meanings...

Some exemplary one-word contranyms:
  • Custom: A common practice or a special treatment
  • Dust: To sprinkle over particles or to remove them
  • Fast: Quick or stuck or made secure
  • Finished: Completed or destroyed
  • Handicap: An advantage provided to ensure equality or a disadvantage that prevents equal achievement
  • Hold up: To support or to impede
  • Model: An exemplar or a copy
  • Out: Visible as with stars showing in the sky, or invisible, in reference to lights
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Re; 'Uppity'.

Willy T Ribbs was (mainly) a US racing driver. In 1986, Ribbs became the first black person to drive a Formula One car, when he tested for the Bernie Ecclestone-owned Brabham team at the Autódromo do Estoril, Portugal.
Ribbs, was outspoken and had received criticism for his forthrightness during his career, sometimes from other African Americans in auto racing. Ribbs has also spoken negatively about his experience in NASCAR and created controversy by referring to NASCAR as "Al-Qaida", "Neckcar", and WWE.
In 1984, during a warm-up session at the SCCA Trans-Am Series season opener at Road Atlanta, Ribbs was fined $1,000 for throwing a punch at fellow driver Bob Lobenberg, after the two drivers made contact on the track. In 1987 following a race at Portland International Raceway, Ribbs was suspended by the International Motor Sports Association for one month after throwing a punch at driver Scott Pruett.
Ribbs was featured in the 2020 documentary Uppity: The Willy T. Ribbs Story, which released on Netflix.
The title of the documentary itself is rooted in a line that demonstrates his trademark combativeness: “They called me (an) uppity ******, and I loved it!"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5862338/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_T._Ribbs
 
escargot said:
Browsing a school Latin dictionary, possibly for obscenities as teenagers do, I came across the entry for custard, for which there is no direct Latin translation. Custard hadn't been invented.
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They had a type of custard, though whether it was regarded in the same way we use it I don't know.
Looks very tasty.

From:

https://myculinarysaga.com/roman-custard/

"The Romans made custard, as we would make, except that they omitted vanilla, which the Romans didn’t have. They did however tossed in a dash of ground pepper. Trust me it works!
1f642.svg
Ancient Roman cooks were the first to recognize the binding properties of eggs.
For an everyday custard, roman bakers simmered milk, eggs and honey in a clay pot. The coagulation of egg proteins thickens the milk during baking."
 
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Ermintruder said:
This has made me wonder: is there such a thing as a phrasal equivalent to a contranym? That is, the name for a phase which has two contradictory meanings...

Some exemplary one-word contranyms:
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Just reading up on 'fast';

Old English fæste "firmly, securely; strictly;" also, perhaps, "speedily," from Proto-Germanic *fasto (source also of Old Saxon fasto, Old Frisian feste, Dutch vast, Old High German fasto, German fast "almost," but in earlier use "firmly, immovably, strongly, very"), from *fastu- (adj.) "firm, fast" (see fast (adj.)).

The meaning "quickly, swiftly, rapidly" was perhaps in Old English, certainly by c. 1200, probably from or developed under influence of Old Norse fast "firmly, fast." This sense developed, apparently in Scandinavian, from that of "firmly, strongly, vigorously" (to run hard means the same as to run fast; also compare fast asleep, also compare Old Norse drekka fast "to drink hard," telja fast "to give (someone) a severe lesson"). Or perhaps from the notion of a runner who "sticks" close to whatever he is chasing (compare Old Danish fast "much, swiftly, at once, near to, almost," and sense evolution of German fix "fast, fixed; fast, quick, nimble," from Latin fixus).

https://www.etymonline.com/word/fast?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_50488
 
escargot said:
It might've been an in-joke expressing contempt for temporary bosses. 'Acting up' could suggest actin' uppity*, i.e. above oneself.

*'Uppity' isn't a word much used in British English. It has racist connotations in American usage. As Techy has American colleagues I've advised him to never, ever speak it to them.
This came up because he once used it, surprisingly I thought, in a conversation with me.
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Do you ever get shirty with anyone over your way?
 
All this talk of custard has reminded of a food related and odd phrase that I recall my paternal grandparents would use back in the 70's.

As a youngster, should I find something silly and start giggling, one of them would utter the most baffling thing I've ever heard...

"You'd laugh (pronounced 'laff') to see a puddin' crawl"

They were from Devon and Dorset (so almost West Country) - and I'd welcome anyone who could throw some light on it.
 
Windsock said:
All this talk of custard has reminded of a food related and odd phrase that I recall my paternal grandparents would use back in the 70's.

As a youngster, should I find something silly and start giggling, one of them would utter the most baffling thing I've ever heard...

"You'd laugh (pronounced 'laff') to see a puddin' crawl"

They were from Devon and Dorset (so almost West Country) - and I'd welcome anyone who could throw some light on it.
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Found a page here -
(Safe Stack Exchange page)
Why does one laugh to see a pudding crawl?

For Creeping puddings only please the wise.
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:chuckle:
 
With us Southerners, there was no real mocking.
When someone hurt someone else, physically, it'd be used ...
"Bert got a bit shirty (i.e. upset or upset), we sorted him out and complaining was hard with a broken jaw."
 
I get 'shirty' if someone unjustly accuses me of 'acting up'. just sayin' @Floyd1

Anyway I'd certainly heard the term 'acting up' in a work context if someone was taking over the role of someone on a higher grade in the event of their absence, leave or sickness for instance.

I frequently warned my children 'don't you start' when they were about to complain of something!

Dad used to say 'you'd laugh if your mothers arse caught fire' but if mother or other adults could overhear he'd change it to 'hair' which would make us laugh all the more 'cos we knew what he really meant!
 
Trevp666 said:
Re; 'Uppity'.

Willy T Ribbs was (mainly) a US racing driver. In 1986, Ribbs became the first black person to drive a Formula One car, when he tested for the Bernie Ecclestone-owned Brabham team at the Autódromo do Estoril, Portugal.
Ribbs, was outspoken and had received criticism for his forthrightness during his career, sometimes from other African Americans in auto racing. Ribbs has also spoken negatively about his experience in NASCAR and created controversy by referring to NASCAR as "Al-Qaida", "Neckcar", and WWE.
In 1984, during a warm-up session at the SCCA Trans-Am Series season opener at Road Atlanta, Ribbs was fined $1,000 for throwing a punch at fellow driver Bob Lobenberg, after the two drivers made contact on the track. In 1987 following a race at Portland International Raceway, Ribbs was suspended by the International Motor Sports Association for one month after throwing a punch at driver Scott Pruett.
Ribbs was featured in the 2020 documentary Uppity: The Willy T. Ribbs Story, which released on Netflix.
The title of the documentary itself is rooted in a line that demonstrates his trademark combativeness: “They called me (an) uppity ******, and I loved it!"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5862338/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_T._Ribbs
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Well we use 'uppity' to mean someone who thinks they're better than everyone else, we use it quite a bit, doesn't matter who they are.
'Shirty' I have never heard, don't know what it means.
My stepdaughter uses the word Y'all all the time, but down south it's common. Up north I don't hear it. And soda up here is 'pop' down south.
 
Victory said:
They had a type of custard, though whether it was regarded in the same way we use it I don't know.
Looks very tasty.

From:

https://myculinarysaga.com/roman-custard/

"The Romans made custard, as we would make, except that they omitted vanilla, which the Romans didn’t have. They did however tossed in a dash of ground pepper. Trust me it works!
1f642.svg
Ancient Roman cooks were the first to recognize the binding properties of eggs.
For an everyday custard, roman bakers simmered milk, eggs and honey in a clay pot. The coagulation of egg proteins thickens the milk during baking."
Click to expand...
The essential ingredient in custard is vanilla in whatever form, which as you note the Romans didn't have, so their milk sauces were certainly not custard.
 
Floyd1 said:
Do you ever get shirty with anyone over your way?
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There's also getting shitty, which has more serious undertones. Someone getting shitty might have a shitty attitude.

I wonder if getting shirty referred vaguely to men removing shirts before fighting?

Many years back I saw men become angry enough to fight in public. They'd face off, furiously scrabbling at their own shirt buttons, often (it seemed to me) buying enough time for their friends to intervene.
 
escargot said:
There's also getting shitty, which has more serious undertones. Someone getting shitty might have a shitty attitude.

I wonder if getting shirty referred vaguely to men removing shirts before fighting?

Many years back I saw men become angry enough to fight in public. They'd face off, furiously scrabbling at their own shirt buttons, often (it seemed to me) buying enough time for their friends to intervene.
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Good theory.
 
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