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Where Does It Come From? Origins Of Phrases & Expressions

Frideswide said:
:rollingw:

I am a great fan of The Lion and Albert

http://holyjoe.org/poetry/edgar.htm
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My all-time favourite in the comic-recitations line is from the same stable as "Lion / Albert" -- viz. Three-'alfpence a Foot -- a marvellously lunatic doggerel tale about Sam Oglethwaite, joiner and building contractor from Bury; who somehow gets embroiled with Noah and his ark and deluge, in what becomes a "love-hate" narrative. Glorious nonsense.
 
Frideswide said:
Edit to ask: what is Long Bacon?
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man-being-silly-pulling-faces-260nw-591897644.jpg


Edit: @Frideswide - not being rude at you, that's what 'long bacon' is.
 
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Frideswide said:
New to me - thank you! I will memorise it for Christamas in case someone demands a turn from everyone.

Edit to ask: what is Long Bacon?
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“Evidently, “long bacon” is Northern English slang for “thumbing one’s nose” or “cocking a snook,” but done with two hands. “Cocking a snook” is performed by spreading the fingers of one hand, touching the tip of your nose with your thumb while sighting your opponent along the tips of your other fingers, and waggling your fingers in the most annoying way possible. “Long bacon” adds the other hand for extra emphasis, thumb touching the little finger of the first.

Such a gesture is certainly elaborate and “long” as such things go, but why “bacon”? My guess is that it’s the resemblance of the finished product to a crisp strip of bacon with its waving ridges. It’s less clear why the single-handed version is called “cocking a snook,” but the “cocking” may refer to the “comb” on the head of a rooster (which vaguely resembles a hand with extended fingers), and “snook” may be related to “snout.” “

http://www.word-detective.com/2008/10/long-bacon/

Well, we’ve both learned something today.

maximus otter
 
Listening to TMS, the younger presenter was Alex Hartley - I'm a fan! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hartley_(cricketer)

Anyway, she was puzzled by the word oblong.

Is it a generational thing that rectangles aren't called oblongs any more? I can't actually remember the last time I didn't say rectangle. When it was relevant, obviously, rather than wandering about randomly chuntering about triangles etc.

:dunno:
 
Frideswide said:
Listening to TMS, the younger presenter was Alex Hartley - I'm a fan! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hartley_(cricketer)

Anyway, she was puzzled by the word oblong.

Is it a generational thing that rectangles aren't called oblongs any more? I can't actually remember the last time I didn't say rectangle. When it was relevant, obviously, rather than wandering about randomly chuntering about triangles etc.

:dunno:
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I can never remember 'rectangle' - but 'oblong' is burned into my brain.
 
I favour 'oblong' over 'rectangle' after all a square is only a special sort of rectangle, (Learnt in primary school early mid fifties :) )
 
Xanatic* said:
Oblong sounds too much like something rounded, like an ellipse.
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And how old are you? Jk:chuckle: I know what oblong means and probably first came across it from Poe's The Oblong Box.

I would not use the word if I were talking about anything mathematical just because rectangle is a shape and most people use that word in mathematics in my experience. If I were writing, I might use oblong just because it is an adjective to describe a shape, but I wouldn't necessarily be referring to a rectangle.

Here's the definition of oblong that I am long windedly trying to explain:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oblong
 
Frideswide said:
Is it a generational thing that rectangles aren't called oblongs any more? I can't actually remember the last time I didn't say rectangle
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Sollywos said:
I favour 'oblong' over 'rectangle' after all a square is only a special sort of rectangle
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brownmane said:
If I were writing, I might use oblong just because it is an adjective to describe a shape, but I wouldn't necessarily be referring to a rectangle
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This is what makes most sense to me too @brownmane ...

Now: op cit
Screenshot_20230609_061556_Chrome.jpg

So Merriam-Webster is agreeing with both of us that an oblong (shape or object) actually connotes either a rectangloid shape /rectangularoid object ie an imperfect/ inexact flat rectangle or a generally-rectangular 3-D object.

Therefore: one could agree that Poe's 'oblong box' (a coffin) is an excellent example of an irregular rectangular box (in fact, it's actually a stretched irregular hexagon when viewed from above, and almost the same from the sides....forming what might indeed be called.... a casket).

I find the sentence in the dictionary definition useful, but only when read twice: "any rectangle which isn't square is oblong"... note that this does NOT say "a square", it uses the word in the precise sense of meaning none of the angles in the shape are exactly 90 degrees (ie "square").

Conversely, I really disagree with the comment that a rectangle or rectangular object on its side can be called an oblong, just because its on its side relative to the viewer. That's a crazy (and perhaps unique) proposition; what other Euclidian shape/Platonic solid can have a changed name just on the basis of its angular position? (nb this is not the same as spheres becoming circles or cubes becoming squares when viewed from above).

Finally; oblongs can have curved/radiused corners or edges (cf leaves, pills, coffins): rectangles or rectangular objects cannot.

TLDR
rectangle= a flat right-angled shape with parallel sides but with one axis of symmetry different in length to the other

rectangular= an object with parallel faces and sides with two axes of symmetry different in length or depth to the other

oblong= a shape or object with edges, sides or faces that give the general impression of a rectangle shape or a rectangular object (in respect of one main axis of semi-symmetry being markedly-different from its others) and with irregular/non-parallel edges, sides or faces (all of which may not have either a planar surface or convergent angular transitions).

ps at no point in this post have the words 'trapezium' or 'trapezoid' been used, due to international regulations regarding them being spoken aloud on Fridays....

pps for similar reasons, the term 'irregular quadrilateral' is prohibited by statute other than on the first Wednesday of each month

ppps I cancelled my gym booking for this morning, since the above soft-core toponymy post has tired me too much already (well, to a degree)
 
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Ermintruder said:
ps at no point in this post have the words 'trapezium' or 'trapezoid' been used, due to international regulations regarding them being spoken aloud on Fridays....

pps for similar reasons, the term 'irregular quadrilateral' is prohibited by statute other than on the first Wednesday of each month
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ummmmmmm.... Island Gardens? But if we are playing under the Wild Hunt Convention I'll go for Peckham Rye. :twothumbs:
 
Frideswide said:
playing under the Wild Hunt Convention
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(a reasonable presumption, but if Finchley Central is closed, the only way to Edgeware is via Euston Square)

Which reminds me: Cockfosters apparently has a literal meaning of "the Chief forester" and nothing to do with adoption of chickens (or anything else)
 
To drinks related phrases which have always confused me (well one is drinks related and the other may be).

When someone proffers some particulalrly potent alcoholic drink they may well say (at least if you move in the same kinds of cicles as me): `Watch your trousers!`

So, why do you need to `watch your trousers`? Does it mean: (a) you'll get so drunk that you'll remove your trousers, or: (b) you'll get so drunk that you might wet yourself?

The next one is older and I haven't heard it for some time. It's the phrase ` a quick flick of the wrist``. So for example, when I was at school and a male teacher would briefly leave the room without explanation, some fellow urchin of a schoolboy might call out: `Sir's gone for a quick flick of the wrist!`

Now what's a `quick flick of the wrist`? Again, two possible explanations occur to me. Is it: (a) the swift downing of a shot of whisky (or other spirit) or: (b) the swift removal of one's appendage in order to urinate (after all, the phrase only seemed to get used for men)?
 
Zeke Newbold said:
To drinks related phrases which have always confused me (well one is drinks related and the other may be).

When someone proffers some particulalrly potent alcoholic drink they may well say (at least if you move in the same kinds of cicles as me): `Watch your trousers!`

So, why do you need to `watch your trousers`? Does it mean: (a) you'll get so drunk that you'll remove your trousers, or: (b) you'll get so drunk that you might wet yourself?

The next one is older and I haven't heard it for some time. It's the phrase ` a quick flick of the wrist``. So for example, when I was at school and a male teacher would briefly leave the room without explanation, some fellow urchin of a schoolboy might call out: `Sir's gone for a quick flick of the wrist!`

Now what's a `quick flick of the wrist`? Again, two possible explanations occur to me. Is it: (a) the swift downing of a shot of whisky (or other spirit) or: (b) the swift removal of one's appendage in order to urinate (after all, the phrase only seemed to get used for men)?
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Not heard of either of those, but regarding the second one, I suspect it was referring to masturbation.
Akin to 'a five knuckle shuffle'.
 
Fill your boots meaning eat and drink as much as you like.
It could be applied to other things I suppose, but I've only heard it in that context.
 
I would imagine the origin of 'Fill your boots' comes from the offer to eat your fill and carry some home "in your boots that you've taken off".
Don't know for certain, but this sounds rational-ish.
 
Floyd1 said:
It's like being in an old folk's home here. Just without the boiled veg and wee smell (until Trev turns up that is).
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It's all right, I'm here to cover with the Old Lady Trouser-Smell.

And in our house' fill your boots' meant eat so much that the food is packed into your stomach so tightly that it may as well be down into your boots.' See also 'having hollow legs' for someone who eats a lot.
 
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