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What Exactly Did Les Dawson See Re. Sid James' Ghost?

Has anyone found an actual source for the story then?

My own (light) research suggests Les Dawson last performed at the Sunderland Empire on Feb 3rd 1990, in the panto Jack and the Beanstalk. Not "his show" as the book suggests - though this would explain the 'large party of schoolchildren' it says were present.

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The panto was produced directed by Jenny Leah, who had been a producer on Blankety Blank. (She also took the gameshow 'Bob's Full House' to America, where it became 'Trump Card', hosted by one... well, you can guess.) His co-star was Irish singer Rose-Marie.

Given it was a panto that extended all the way into early February, though, what are the chances the spooky encounter should take place on the very last night of the run?
 
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Ghost In The Machine said:
He was implying she was a navvy. :)

Les was better known for the mother in law jokes.
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I remember one of his:

My mother-in-law passed away in her sleep. She had a waterbed that overheated and was the first person in Blackpool to be be poached to death.
 
Analogue Boy said:
Looking at Dooby Disco Duck’s history of Panto puppetry performances, he seems to have worked with all the greats. He was the one to see Sid James’ ghost according to a fact I just made up.
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Maybe there were dooby fumes hanging around backstage. Might explain everything.
 
Although his jokes are good, we'd prefer to keep the thread on topic, please.
 
escargot said:
Yup, I saw Castle discussing that on TV. Parkinson perhaps?
His act involved playing the trumpet in the clubs so he'd have to take a deep breath before starting. At the time the air in the clubs would be thick with smoke. He believed he'd acquired the lung cancer through passive smoking.
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Hmm, it is possible but his death came at a time when the anti-smoking lobby had declared war on passive smoking, were pushing for smoking to be banned in pubs and clubs and Roy became involved:

"“In 1993 I put together my ideas for an international research facility in Liverpool and it was then that we went to Roy Castle and asked for his help. His response was magnificent and, although he was dying, we arranged a ‘Tour of Hope’ by special train around the UK which raised over £1m in three days during July 1994”"

https://roycastle.org/roy-castle-fagends-a-statement-from-our-chief-executive/

Now smoking is horribly bad for your health and causes lung cancer but Roy didn't smoke. Yes, those clubs were full of fag smoke but they were also riddled with asbestos:

"Asbestos can cause lung cancer. One study attributed as much as 18% of lung cancer cases to occupational asbestos exposure. Cancer may develop after a person inhales asbestos and its fibers become lodged in the lung tissue. Symptoms, prognosis and treatment options are the same as for any non-asbestos-related lung cancer."

https://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-cancer/lung-cancer/

So a good chance it was crumbling asbestos in some old theatre's Green Room. I appreciate the end result is that he died prematurely from the disease but we shouldn't ignore the politics involved.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Hmm, it is possible but his death came at a time when the anti-smoking lobby had declared war on passive smoking, were pushing for smoking to be banned in pubs and clubs and Roy became involved:

"“In 1993 I put together my ideas for an international research facility in Liverpool and it was then that we went to Roy Castle and asked for his help. His response was magnificent and, although he was dying, we arranged a ‘Tour of Hope’ by special train around the UK which raised over £1m in three days during July 1994”"

https://roycastle.org/roy-castle-fagends-a-statement-from-our-chief-executive/

Now smoking is horribly bad for your health and causes lung cancer but Roy didn't smoke. Yes, those clubs were full of fag smoke but they were also riddled with asbestos:

"Asbestos can cause lung cancer. One study attributed as much as 18% of lung cancer cases to occupational asbestos exposure. Cancer may develop after a person inhales asbestos and its fibers become lodged in the lung tissue. Symptoms, prognosis and treatment options are the same as for any non-asbestos-related lung cancer."

https://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-cancer/lung-cancer/

So a good chance it was crumbling asbestos in some old theatre's Green Room. I appreciate the end result is that he died prematurely from the disease but we shouldn't ignore the politics involved.
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There was a period in the mid 1950s when some cigarettes actually had asbestos in the filters.
 
Roy always pointed out that while he was a non-smoker, he was playing the trumpet in the clubs. It wasn't just sitting there passively breathing.
 
Also, back then many families smoked in the house.
Paul McCartney mentions how everyone lit up when the relatives came round.
It could have been that, or a combination of factors.
Buses for example were often clouded with cigarette smoke (even I can remember that).
 
Paul_Exeter said:
So a good chance it was crumbling asbestos in some old theatre's Green Room. I appreciate the end result is that he died prematurely from the disease but we shouldn't ignore the politics involved.
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Not the case. 'Occupational asbestos exposure' concerns the effects of asbestos on people who work directly or indirectly with it. The website you quote lists a hierarchy of occupations in order of their risk.

While occupations such as teaching and hairdressing are stated as being at low risk, musicians are not mentioned.
 
escargot said:
Not the case. 'Occupational asbestos exposure' concerns the effects of asbestos on people who work directly or indirectly with it. The website you quote lists a hierarchy of occupations in order of their risk.

While occupations such as teaching and hairdressing are stated as being at low risk, musicians are not mentioned.
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Sorry, forgot to mention the asbestos curtains;

"Fireproof asbestos curtains were used in movie theaters between the 1950s and 1980s. Apart from movie theaters, places such as live performance theaters, halls, auditoriums, and concert venues started adopting asbestos curtains."

and:
"
People who worked with or in the vicinity of asbestos curtains are at a higher risk of asbestos exposure. Asbestos curtains, when worn out, cut or ripped released tiny fibers into the air. As with any safety tool, the curtains needed testing and maintenance regularly. The testing process would also release asbestos fibers into the air. Therefore, any person working with or around the asbestos curtains when such disruption is done is at risk of breathing in asbestos fibers. Additionally, family members of people who worked with asbestos curtains were also exposed to asbestos as these fibers were easily transported home.

People involved in the below-listed occupations are likely to be in contact with asbestos curtains:

  • Theater employees
  • Safety inspectors
  • Sound and light technicians
  • Stage crews
  • Stage managers
  • Maintenance workers
  • Actors, actresses, and performers
People who have worked in theaters around asbestos curtains and have developed mesothelioma or any other asbestos-related disease are eligible to seek compensation."

https://www.asbestos123.com/news/asbestos-exposure-risks-at-movie-theaters/

Also:

"Soft Scenery​

Legs & Borders were made from cloth woven with asbestos until the 1980s. The asbestos fibres added structural integrity to the cloth, as well as making them fire retardant.

Theatre Construction​

Asbestos board was widely used in theatre and cinema buildings (as well as many others) for it’s structural strength, soundproofing and fire resistant properties."


https://www.theatrecrafts.com/pages/home/topics/safety/asbestos-in-the-theatre/
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Hmm, it is possible but his death came at a time when the anti-smoking lobby had declared war on passive smoking, were pushing for smoking to be banned in pubs and clubs and Roy became involved:

"“In 1993 I put together my ideas for an international research facility in Liverpool and it was then that we went to Roy Castle and asked for his help. His response was magnificent and, although he was dying, we arranged a ‘Tour of Hope’ by special train around the UK which raised over £1m in three days during July 1994”"

https://roycastle.org/roy-castle-fagends-a-statement-from-our-chief-executive/

Now smoking is horribly bad for your health and causes lung cancer but Roy didn't smoke. Yes, those clubs were full of fag smoke but they were also riddled with asbestos:

"Asbestos can cause lung cancer. One study attributed as much as 18% of lung cancer cases to occupational asbestos exposure. Cancer may develop after a person inhales asbestos and its fibers become lodged in the lung tissue. Symptoms, prognosis and treatment options are the same as for any non-asbestos-related lung cancer."

https://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-cancer/lung-cancer/

So a good chance it was crumbling asbestos in some old theatre's Green Room. I appreciate the end result is that he died prematurely from the disease but we shouldn't ignore the politics involved.
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That's not quite true about asbestos, whilst many buildings have it, left alone it presents no hazards it's very rare that asbestos material crumbles although there are loose forms but this was mainly used in insulation, again left undisturbed it's not dangerous, using Occam's razor its a safe bet he got cancer from 2nd cigarette smoke
 
As kids, it was everywhere and we used to play with the stuff all the time.
We’d do ‘science’ and try to set it on fire, break up the corrugated bits and use it in our camps. Too late to worry about it now.
 
Robbrent said:
That's not quite true about asbestos, whilst many buildings have it, left alone it presents no hazards it's very rare that asbestos material crumbles although there are loose forms but this was mainly used in insulation, again left undisturbed it's not dangerous, using Occam's razor its a safe bet he got cancer from 2nd cigarette smoke
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He might not have 'got' cancer from anything. Cancer can just arise in the human body. Whilst there are situations that can predispose you towards it (smoking, drinking, being overweight), you can still get cancer even if you aren't subjected to any triggers. And many people who worked in the clubs didn't get lung cancer.
 
It's a sad gamble:
You either get it or you don't. There are factors and behaviour that changes the odds.

You might get lung cancer or not. But you don't do things that increases the chances of you getting lung cancer.

My dad smoked as a kid (as they all did in the poor 30s) but, on joining the army at 16, gave up - he was too tight with money. ;)
My mum smoked as a teen, 40-a day Woodbines. Even when I smoked, I couldn't even ... urgh!
My Dad died first from a huge cancer tumour on his lung. My Mum died six years later ... from emphysema andf lung disease.

Point is, smoking doesn't guarantee you'll get lung cancer. But it sure as heck doesn't do you any favours. In Castle's case, his 'body' might be doomed to experience lung cancer ... but his working in a smoke-filled environment wouldn't help.
 
Stormkhan said:
We had fire-proof panels of it in our Chemistry lab's benches.
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Asbestos sheeting is not dangerous as long as it maintains its structural integrity. The house I grew up in had asbestos sheeting round its electrical cupboard, and the sheeting was painted. As long as the paint film was intact it was perfectly safe.
 
Stormkhan said:
It's a sad gamble:
You either get it or you don't. There are factors and behaviour that changes the odds.

You might get lung cancer or not. But you don't do things that increases the chances of you getting lung cancer.

My dad smoked as a kid (as they all did in the poor 30s) but, on joining the army at 16, gave up - he was too tight with money. ;)
My mum smoked as a teen, 40-a day Woodbines. Even when I smoked, I couldn't even ... urgh!
My Dad died first from a huge cancer tumour on his lung. My Mum died six years later ... from emphysema andf lung disease.

Point is, smoking doesn't guarantee you'll get lung cancer. But it sure as heck doesn't do you any favours. In Castle's case, his 'body' might be doomed to experience lung cancer ... but his working in a smoke-filled environment wouldn't help.
Click to expand...
Well exactly, I was reacting to @Robbrent saying it was a 'safe bet' that he got cancer from working the clubs. It really isn't, but, yes, it won't have done him any favours either. Although he may well have developed lung cancer even if he'd never been in a club in his life.
 
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