History Rewritten

EnolaGaia

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... I was unaware of the actual extent and tonnage of conventional US bombing, in the itemised detail outlined in the article, especially the fact (presumably true?) that neither the Hiroshima nor Nagasaki raids resulted in the highest death-toll or devastation....extended conventional bombing on other targets significantly-exceeded their thresholds. And yet I am unaware of having ever seen a picture of any bombed Japanese target other than the two 'nuclear cities'. ...
The biggest Tokyo bombing event was the Operation Meetinghouse raid (March 1945) that burned much of the urban area. I've seen claims the incendiary approach was inspired by the Dresden fire bombing circa 1 month earlier. Japanese urban areas were far more susceptible to fire owing to the extensive wood (and even 'paper') materials used in smaller business / residential neighborhoods. Compared to Dresden, Tokyo and other Japanese cities of the era were virtual tinderboxes.

Neither the Japanese nor the Americans went out of their way to publicize the incident, and aftermath photos were rarely seen until the last couple of decades. For more, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

For a list of Japanese cities subjected to conventional 'fire bombing' prior to Hiroshima, see:

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html

NOTE: This latter link goes to a webpage specifically focused on napalm, war crimes, and the Fog of War documentary on Robert McNamara. I'm not sure all the listed attacks were quite as deliberately planned with a focus on starting fires as Operation Meetinghouse, but they all certainly had that effect. Traditional Japanese wood and paper architecture arguably made such areas the most flammable targets in the world.
 

GNC

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The Fog of War documentary is a very interesting one: McNamara obviously felt tremendous guilt at all those deaths, civilian deaths at that, yet craved the forgiveness of knowing he did the correct thing. I wasn't sure how to respond to him by the end of the film.
 

EnolaGaia

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... Do you not share even the slightest common-ground with him regarding "The Bomb" being used, post-war, as a totemic substitute for much of Japan's military hierarchy's failings? ...
Yes, I agree the new bomb, exclusively held by the primary adversary, provided a convenient excuse for capitulating long after they could have / should have if the welfare of their people had really been a concern.

I would also agree that it provided convenient rhetorical chaff for obscuring the fact the leadership had dilly-dallied for months, as their nation literally burned to the ground, in some vain hope previously conquered territories would remain theirs and the ancient domestic order (i.e., the emperor's throne) would be preserved.

However, I strongly disagree that seizing this excuse was a way of covering up a fear of some decisive Soviet invasion and / or occupation. I don't even 'buy' the explanation that the Japanese leaders were spooked into surrendering just because Stalin was no longer their go-to guy to serve as intermediary. It had already been months since the USSR had denounced their non-aggression treaty. How delusional did one have to be to consider Stalin a benevolent, reliable partner who'd serve you well as a front man in the first place?
 

Yithian

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The Fog of War documentary is a very interesting one: McNamara obviously felt tremendous guilt at all those deaths, civilian deaths at that, yet craved the forgiveness of knowing he did the correct thing. I wasn't sure how to respond to him by the end of the film.
He was an old man who had only slowly come to change his views in key (not all) respects. I think if he could have lived longer and been re-interviewed, you might have seen genuine remorse and contrition. What the viewer saw was a transitional stage, I think.

I thought it was remarkable viewing. All too human.

Online here, btw.

http://documentaryvine.com/video/the-fog-of-war/
 
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EnolaGaia

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Here's an interesting history-rewrite / conspiracy theory I ran across on the Copenhagen Post Online site ... It not only touches on a rewriting of history to re-direct a succession, but involves dramatizing a Julius Caesar invasion and conquest of Britain that never actually occurred!

Caesar conquering Britain a 9th century invention by Alfred the Great

Saxon king fabricated 54 BC invasion to replace Viking-friendly heir and protect England from the Danes

The Saxon king Alfred, a late ninth century ruler who unified several kingdoms of England and thwarted the Danish Vikings from taking over at every turn, is commonly referred to as ‘the Great’ by historians.

But maybe ‘the Magnificent’ club of Suleiman, Lorenzo de’ Medici and co should make room for one more, contends Rebecca Huston, a former National Geographic Channel producer and American screenwriter who after ten years of original research and analysis believes the king single-handedly saved the country from being permanently absorbed into Scandinavia.
FULL STORY: http://cphpost.dk/news/caesar-conquering-britain-a-9th-century-invention-by-alfred-the-great.html

Here are some selected tidbits ...

Alfred simply demonstrated that the pen is mightier than the sword. ...

By doctoring a Latin version of one of the ancient world’s most famous writings, and altering several Old English manuscripts, he was able to convince his council of nobles that his son Edward was the rightful heir to his throne, not his nephew Æthelwold, a Saxon susceptible to alliances with the Danes.

And the astonishing upshot of this discovery is that Julius Caesar neither invaded nor conquered Britain in 54 BC.
Along with the collected letters of Cicero, the memoirs written by Caesar while he was conquering France and other areas of central Europe in the fifth decade of the first century BC is believed by many to be one of the few manuscripts to have survived the period.

But there is a very good chance that Caesar’s ‘Commentaries’ did not survive, and that ‘Bellum Gallicum’ (BG), the title it is known as today, was the work of other writers. ...

As an avid translator of Latin texts into Old English with all his kingdom’s manuscripts at his disposal, Alfred was ideally placed to meddle, and Huston claims she has found compelling evidence among 6,000 pages of ancient and medieval texts that Alfred fabricated Caesar’s two ‘invasions’ of Britain in 55 and 54 BC and added them to what would become BG. In reality, she says, the first ‘invasion’ did not take place, and the second was a passing visit. ...
 

hunck

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So did Alfred also build the many Roman remains, several long distance roads & Hadrian's wall or were these constructed in their 'passing visit'?
 

EnolaGaia

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So did Alfred also build the many Roman remains, several long distance roads & Hadrian's wall or were these constructed in their 'passing visit'?
The major Roman works constructed in Britain came after Claudius' invasion and sustained occupation from 43 AD onward. Hadrian's Wall wasn't constructed until the 2nd Century AD.

The key question would be:

What substantial Roman works in Britain have been definitively dated to the time between Julius Caesar's purported invasions (55 and 54 BC) and Claudius' invasion in 43 AD?
 

Swifty

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The inspiration for The Beatles Eleanor Rigby song .. and her name on a gravestone .. and an upcoming sale for deeds for a family grave (although Paul (or is it Faul etc) McCartney has denied a link between this gravestone and the song)

"It was at a church fete in 1957 that John Lennon and Paul McCartney first met. Just yards away lay the grave of scullery maid Eleanor Rigby, who had died, aged 44, in 1939."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-41162284
 
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JamesWhitehead

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McCartney has denied a link between this gravestone and the song
Rigby is quite a common name in Liverpool. The BBC article makes this point, though it fails to note that Rigby's Bar is one of Liverpool's most celebrated drinking-holes. I have sunk many a pint in there - one of the I-o-M Okell's few mainland outposts! :pcheers:
 

Swifty

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This is more a case of horrible irony/history repeating itself .. a light aircraft that took up the doctor who was in charge of the football team *deep breath* who had to resort to cannibalism in 1972 when their plane crashed in the Andes *another deep breath*, the situation made into the film ALIVE, has crashed during a flight to mark the anniversary .. the pilot was OK, the doctor's died ..

"The memorial match, which has been taking annually place for 44 years, alternately in Chile and Uruguay, is held to mark the match that never happened" .. again, this flight crash was connected to the the anniversary of the crash ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-41550526
 
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maximus otter

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...a convenient excuse for capitulating long after they could have / should have if the welfare of their people had really been a concern.
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman knew this during the American Civil War:

"We are not only fighting armies, but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war, as well as their organized armies. I know that this recent movement of mine through Georgia has had a wonderful effect in this respect. Thousands who had been deceived by their lying papers into the belief that we were being whipped all the time, realized the truth, and have no appetite for a repetition of the same experience."

"War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueller it is, the sooner it will be over."

Remember that - even after the bombs were dropped - the emperor's speech to his people announcing the cessation of hostilities included the almost comic evasion, "...the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage", and didn't even include an unequivocal declaration that Japan had, in fact, surrendered.

maximus otter
 

EnolaGaia

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Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman knew this during the American Civil War ...
Yep ... Sherman's March represented one of the - if not the - earliest campaign explicitly aimed at breaking the will of the adversary's population. There had certainly been campaigns of similar civilian-focused destruction for centuries, but this one was specifically designed for that purpose.

Since then, breaking the enemy population's will has become a canonical objective in military theory.
 

EnolaGaia

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The mystery behind a jet boat crash that killed world water speed record breaker Donald Campbell may finally have been solved following new analysis of photographs and footage of the accident. ...

The wreckage of Bluebird was salvaged from lake bed in 2001 and Campbell's body was also later recovered leading to an inquest into his death. ...
I couldn't find a more appropriate thread for this news item, and in any case it does involve some history being rewritten. In this case, the revision means ...

Campbell's Bluebird is no longer 'wreckage'. It's been restored and re-launched ...

Bluebird jet boat floats again, 51 years after fatal crash
The famed jet boat Bluebird returned to the water Saturday for the first time since a 1967 crash that killed pilot Donald Campbell during a world speed-record attempt.

Watched by well-wishers including Campbell’s daughter Gina Campbell, the sleek blue hydroplane was lowered into Loch Fad on Scotland’s Isle of Bute, where it will undergo low-speed tests.

Campbell had already set eight land and water speed records when he attempted to break his own 276.3 mph (445 kph) water-speed record on Jan. 4, 1967 on Coniston Water in northwest England’s Lake District.

The jet-powered Bluebird roared past 300 mph (482 kph) before it vaulted into the air, flipped and crashed into the lake, breaking in two and killing the 45-year-old Campbell.

It was 34 years before divers managed to raise the Bluebird’s wreckage from the bottom of 150-foot (45-meter) deep lake in March 2001. ...

A team has been working for 17 years to restore the vessel and hopes to return it to the Lake District next year. ...
Bluebird-Relaunch.jpeg
SOURCE: https://apnews.com/b745b91801674f089f06e947b594e3a9
 

EnolaGaia

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According to this newly published research, some of the credit for Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo should properly be extended to .... Tambora!

A possible link between Tambora's 1815 eruption and Napoleon's weather challenges has been suggested before. This new research demonstrates a previously unrecognized phenomenon makes the suggestions far more plausible.

Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo caused in part by Indonesian volcanic eruption
Electrically charged volcanic ash short-circuited Earth's atmosphere in 1815, causing global poor weather and Napoleon's defeat, says new research.

Historians know that rainy and muddy conditions helped the Allied army defeat the French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte at the Battle of Waterloo. The June 1815 event changed the course of European history.

Two months prior, a volcano named Mount Tambora erupted on the Indonesian island of Sumbawa, killing 100,000 people and plunging the Earth into a 'year without a summer' in 1816.

Now, Dr Matthew Genge from Imperial College London has discovered that electrified volcanic ash from eruptions can 'short-circuit' the electrical current of the ionosphere - the upper level of the atmosphere that is responsible for cloud formation.

The findings, published today in Geology, could confirm the suggested link between the eruption and Napoleon's defeat.

Dr Genge, from Imperial's Department of Earth Science and Engineering, suggests that the Tambora eruption short-circuited the ionosphere, ultimately leading to a pulse of cloud formation. This brought heavy rain across Europe that contributed to Napoleon Bonaparte's defeat. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-08/icl-nda082218.php
 
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I've heard this before, but I've never been entirely sure why it assumed that what disadvantaged Napoleon didn't also disadvantage the British and their allies. It's not like the redcoats were issued umbrellas.

Oh, hold on - Wellingtons!
 

Nemo

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Lovers of Modena skeletons holding hands were both men.

Researchers have found that a couple of skeletons known as the Lovers of Modena, because they are holding hands, were both men.

The researchers could not determine the sex of the skeletons when they were found in Italy in 2009 because they were badly preserved.

But a new technique, using the protein on tooth enamel, revealed their sex.

The actual relationship between the skeletons from the 4-6th Century AD remains a mystery.

The researchers say the two adult males were intentionally buried hand-in-hand.
(c) BBC '19.

This maybe in the wrong place, so (re)inter else where if needs be.
 

PeniG

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They were the Lovers of Modena until their biological sex was determined, but now suddenly it's a mystery. Men and women can hold hands for non-romantic reasons, too, but nobody's bothered about projecting modern romantic assumptions onto the past until it stops being heterosexual.
 
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They were the Lovers of Modena until their biological sex was determined, but now suddenly it's a mystery. Men and women can hold hands for non-romantic reasons, too, but nobody's bothered about projecting modern romantic assumptions onto the past until it stops being heterosexual.
Maybe they were Transwomen.
 

maximus otter

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They were the Lovers of Modena until their biological sex was determined, but now suddenly it's a mystery. Men and women can hold hands for non-romantic reasons, too, but nobody's bothered about projecting modern romantic assumptions onto the past until it stops being heterosexual.
It’s believed to have been a war cemetery. Two men being buried in the same grave would hardly be remarkable; and, unless specific steps were taken in order to prevent it, it would be unsurprising that their hands ended up close together.

Look: an orgy!



Without compelling evidence any further interpretation is 21st century woo.

maximus otter
 

Naughty_Felid

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It’s believed to have been a war cemetery. Two men being buried in the same grave would hardly be remarkable; and, unless specific steps were taken in order to prevent it, it would be unsurprising that their hands ended up close together.

Look: an orgy!



Without compelling evidence any further interpretation is 21st century woo.

maximus otter
Lol Max this stuff gets under your skin, doesn't it?

I'm fairly sure that lots of the ancient world happily engaged in gay sex.

It's alright though these skeletons were not British skeletons so no gayness has infected our green and pleasant land.
 
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It’s believed to have been a war cemetery. Two men being buried in the same grave would hardly be remarkable; and, unless specific steps were taken in order to prevent it, it would be unsurprising that their hands ended up close together.

Look: an orgy!



Without compelling evidence any further interpretation is 21st century woo.

maximus otter
Could have been a mass gay/trans orgy.
 

EnolaGaia

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