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Strange Deaths

Endlessly Amazed said:
Regarding the young family and dog who all died of dehydration in California:

If it is true, it was poor decision-making on the part of the parents. It was just a mistake, but with disastrous consequences. I have loved going into wilderness areas my whole life, and on a regular, not frequent, basis see poor decision-making by all kinds of people, of all ages.

To take a very young child on such a hike in such heat is just dumb. Perhaps overconfidence on the part of the parents, who may have been enjoying thinking of themselves as modern, young, healthy, outdoorsy, introducing their child to a healthy lifestyle, etc. Perhaps the dog was leashed.

Years ago, I was out by myself driving through wilderness in northern Arizona. I ran across a young Navajo man who had gone out jogging, got lost, and was in bad shape from heat and dehydration. I got him in my car, got him water, electrolytes, cooled down, etc. He had no health insurance and refused to go the hospital, so I took him to my home until he was stabilized and coherent; then he begged me to not tell anyone what happened because he was a native American and shouldn’t get lost in the desert. He was embarrassed.

I have been injured rock climbing, skiing, etc. and know and believe how quickly things can go wrong. I plan for things going wrong from the start. With that being said, about 6 months ago I made a couple of related, casual decisions which almost led to disastrous consequences: I took my disabled husband on a spur of the moment drive in the Arizona countryside. No cell phone reception and therefore no GPS in the vast wilderness, didn’t see anyone else for hours, I got lost (WTF!?!) and almost ran out of gas in temperatures of over 110F. Just like that California family. I was dumb, too. So now we have an expensive satellite GPS that doesn't require cell phone reception. I was really scared.

Shit happens, and overconfidence is part of it. My believing that shit happens, and thinking of myself as prepared, is part of my overconfidence.
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Reports say the couple were experienced hikers, some reports saying they had previously hiked in the Himalayas.

"They were both avid hikers and hiked many trails in that area"

https://www.insideedition.com/myste...-sierra-national-forest-still-being-probed-by

"She said the family was well prepared for a day hike."

https://www.kcra.com/article/califo...dead-on-remote-yosemite-hiking-trail/37356485

Deputies said they were experienced hikers

https://fox40.com/news/california-c...-family-found-dead-in-sierra-national-forest/
 
maximus otter said:
The involvement of Alec Baldwin raises red flags for me, as he does not have a good reputation regarding temperament and stability.
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I really don't think he would do that. He was a co-producer as well as an actor on this film.
 
Being reckless/impulsive with a prop gun doesn't tend to lead to death. It has happened before that something got lodged in the barrel, which then acted as a projectile. I believe Brandon Lee died that way.
 
Nosmo King said:
Reports say the couple were experienced hikers, some reports saying they had previously hiked in the Himalayas.

"They were both avid hikers and hiked many trails in that area"

https://www.insideedition.com/myste...-sierra-national-forest-still-being-probed-by

"She said the family was well prepared for a day hike."

https://www.kcra.com/article/califo...dead-on-remote-yosemite-hiking-trail/37356485

Deputies said they were experienced hikers

https://fox40.com/news/california-c...-family-found-dead-in-sierra-national-forest/
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Nosmo King – Yes. I find it hard to believe that they died of dehydration after less than 10 miles hiking. But, assuming that is the case (i.e., it is true), then it was a dumb mistake. With no evidence, I vaguely wondered if they had all been struck by lightning.

I have witnessed experienced hikers making mistakes my whole life. It is not just a guy thing (big dick syndrome) – everyone makes mistakes.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
To take a very young child on such a hike in such heat is just dumb. Perhaps overconfidence on the part of the parents, who may have been enjoying thinking of themselves as modern, young, healthy, outdoorsy, introducing their child to a healthy lifestyle, etc.
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Yup, probably that. Though a little kid of 1 would have been thrilled with a walk to the swings and a look at the ducks in the park.
That's what mine got at that age!
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
Nosmo King – Yes. I find it hard to believe that they died of dehydration after less than 10 miles hiking. But, assuming that is the case (i.e., it is true), then it was a dumb mistake. With no evidence, I vaguely wondered if they had all been struck by lightning.

I have witnessed experienced hikers making mistakes my whole life. It is not just a guy thing (big dick syndrome) – everyone makes mistakes.
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Lightning strike was one of the theories that was considered early on in the investigation.

https://www.wsav.com/weather-news/lightning-investigated-as-cause-of-death-for-california-family/
 
I realize I pay more attention to mysterious deaths in the wilderness than urban mysterious deaths because I am so often out in the boonies, and want to learn about what to avoid and be smarter. But I do know that I can’t anticipate everything which could go wrong, and I don’t want to be inside my home afraid to do the things I love. But shit happens. All the time.
 
maximus otter said:
I wonder whether the revolver was chambered for metallic cartridges, or was a muzzleloader? All the film synopsis says is "Western" which - depending on the timeframe - could involve either.

Many film prop handguns have been converted to fire multi-calibre blanks, though ones specific to calibre, e.g. .38 Special, .45 "Long" Colt, .38-40 etc. - are available.

To kill one person and injure a second implies a projectile, whereas most blanks are simply powder charges, topped with a paper or wax wad, with the end of the cartridge case crimped to retain the propellant:

thumbnail.asp


I find it very difficult to believe that a fragment of such wadding could do such damage to two people.

The involvement of Alec Baldwin raises red flags for me, as he does not have a good reputation regarding temperament and stability.

The investigation will doubtless be thorough. Until its conclusions... :dunno:

maximus otter
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I think with Brandon Lee an inert round* left behind the bullet when unloaded and then the blank shoved the bullet out with enough force to kill him.

Guess something similar happened here.

* inert rounds are often real bullets and casings but without powder and primer.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
I realize I pay more attention to mysterious deaths in the wilderness than urban mysterious deaths because I am so often out in the boonies, and want to learn about what to avoid and be smarter. But I do know that I can’t anticipate everything which could go wrong, and I don’t want to be inside my home afraid to do the things I love. But shit happens. All the time.
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The thing I dont understand about the dehydration theory is that it affects people at different times based on body size, metabolism, how much you have exerted yourself etc. For the 2 adults to have succumbed at the same time is unusual, given they were both quite differently built*, I would have thought that if one had become ill, the other would have sought help or done something to relieve the others symptoms, even risking drinking unclean water, as it is better to be sick than to die of dehydration.

*
1-12.jpg
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
I realize I pay more attention to mysterious deaths in the wilderness than urban mysterious deaths because I am so often out in the boonies, and want to learn about what to avoid and be smarter. But I do know that I can’t anticipate everything which could go wrong, and I don’t want to be inside my home afraid to do the things I love. But shit happens. All the time.
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Can remember having a circular argument along these 'shit happens' lines as a teenager. :chuckle:
This was before I could drive and had mentioned talking lessons during a work tea break.

Me: I'm starting driving lessons.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous.
Me: I won't be speeding.
Whoever: Yes but speeding is dangerous. You need to remember that.
Me: I won't be speeding. I haven't even learned to drive yet.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous. If you drive too fast you could kill someone.
Me: I won't be speeding. I haven't even learned to drive yet.
Whoever: When you get behind that wheel someone who's speeding could kill you.
Me: Well I'll have to be careful then.
Whoever: You can't stop the idiots out there who'll crash into you because they're speeding.
Me: I'll keep an eye on them.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous.
Me: (rolls eyes)
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous. You have to watch your speed. You only have to put your foot down and you're dead.
Me: (slurps tea noisily)
Whoever: Dead in no time. Speeding is dangerous.
Me:
etc
 
On the tv-show Dexter, a man almost got stabbed when Jimmy Smits grabbed the wrong knife from a table. Having real knives and prop knives mixed on a table did strike me as a bad idea at the time.
 
escargot said:
Can remember having a circular argument along these 'shit happens' lines as a teenager. :chuckle:
This was before I could drive and had mentioned talking lessons during a work tea break.

Me: I'm starting driving lessons.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous.
Me: I won't be speeding.
Whoever: Yes but speeding is dangerous. You need to remember that.
Me: I won't be speeding. I haven't even learned to drive yet.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous. If you drive too fast you could kill someone.
Me: I won't be speeding. I haven't even learned to drive yet.
Whoever: When you get behind that wheel someone who's speeding could kill you.
Me: Well I'll have to be careful then.
Whoever: You can't stop the idiots out there who'll crash into you because they're speeding.
Me: I'll keep an eye on them.
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous.
Me: (rolls eyes)
Whoever: Speeding is dangerous. You have to watch your speed. You only have to put your foot down and you're dead.
Me: (slurps tea noisily)
Whoever: Dead in no time. Speeding is dangerous.
Me:
etc
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Do not exceed 30 mph! You will surely die instantaneously if you do. Instantaneously!
 
Nosmo King said:
The thing I dont understand about the dehydration theory is that it affects people at different times based on body size, metabolism, how much you have exerted yourself etc. For the 2 adults to have succumbed at the same time is unusual, given they were both quite differently built*, I would have thought that if one had become ill, the other would have sought help or done something to relieve the others symptoms, even risking drinking unclean water, as it is better to be sick than to die of dehydration.

*
View attachment 47023
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I’m with you. If they actually died of dehydration and the heat, then I assume they were not making good decisions because of the mental confusion and delirium quickly caused by dehydration. Perhaps one of them did notice the problem, but pride, refusal to leave the other, etc. could have resulted in them dying together. Relatives and friends of course would of course say they were experienced. How seldom we read of relatives and friends saying the deceased were clueless.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Do not exceed 30 mph! You will surely die instantaneously if you do. Instantaneously!
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The particular person delivering that lecture was well over retirement age who drove his Rover at about 29mph in all weathers and road conditions. I'd sometimes accept a lift from him when desperate and it was like being in the lead funeral limo.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
I’m with you. If they actually died of dehydration and the heat, then I assume they were not making good decisions because of the mental confusion and delirium quickly caused by dehydration. Perhaps one of them did notice the problem, but pride, refusal to leave the other, etc. could have resulted in them dying together. ...
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It only takes one bad decision to spin a problematic situation into a disaster.

My first guess would be that the baby fell ill and the parents lingered together trying to deal with the child until it was too late for either of them to go seek help (or potable water).
 
Xanatic* said:
It has happened before that something got lodged in the barrel, which then acted as a projectile. I believe Brandon Lee died that way.
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Roland Deschain said:
I think with Brandon Lee an inert round* left behind the bullet when unloaded and then the blank shoved the bullet out with enough force to kill him.

Guess something similar happened here.

* inert rounds are often real bullets and casings but without powder and primer.
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Yes, Lee's death was the result of a very peculiar set of circumstances. One of the men working with the firearms made his own inert rounds and blanks, so he had a lot of loose bullets and casings in his shop. The gun that killed Lee had been filmed in close-up the day before, filled with inert rounds so it looked like bullets were in the cylinder. One of the bullets came loose from its casing and lodged in the barrel, but no one noticed. When the blank charge went off, it propelled the bullet almost as if a live round went off.

I was surprised when this story and that of Jon-Erik Hexum (who died when he discharged a blank at his temple, not realizing the danger) were sloppily summarized on the TV news this morning, implying that both were the results of accidentally using live rounds.
 
EnolaGaia said:
It only takes one bad decision to spin a problematic situation into a disaster.

My first guess would be that the baby fell ill and the parents lingered together trying to deal with the child until it was too late for either of them to go seek help (or potable water).
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Sounds about right. When a spin to the park and an ice cream would have been good enough.
 
ChasFink said:
Yes, Lee's death was the result of a very peculiar set of circumstances.
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Followup: I did a little research and found that the "inert rounds" had been made from emptied live rounds, so they still had primers (the firing caps, so to speak). Someone had "fired" the gun, which is what dislodged the bullet from the casing.
 
Some more on the Baldwin shooting.

"The prop gun that killed Hutchins contained a single live round, a Hollywood union said in a memo to members.

“A single live round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor," according to a local branch of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees.

The precise circumstances of the death were still unclear on Friday morning.

However, a witness told Hollywood gossip site Showbiz 411 that The Departed star immediately began asking why he was handed a "hot gun" - which typically means a gun loaded with real ammunition - after the shooting.

“In all my years, I’ve never been handed a hot gun,” the actor allegedly kept saying.

The site has an eyewitness claiming that one "bullet" went straight through Ms Hutchins before hitting Mr Souza's clavicle.

Angry colleagues of Ms Hutchins demanded answers as to how the accident was allowed to happen."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...prop-gun-killed-cinematographer-set-new-film/
 
Mythopoeika said:
She would have been operating the camera, with the director standing just behind her.
They probably told Alec to fire the gun in their direction, for a certain kind of shot.
I'm surprised that a prop malfunctioned in this way, because similar accidents have occurred before - you'd think they'd have taken all the precautions necessary. What may have happened is that the cartridge of the blank round may have disintegrated, blasting shards of metal outwards (and maybe carrying part of the gun barrel too). Somebody may have put too much explosive in the blank round.
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https://gizmodo.com/why-a-gun-loaded-with-blanks-can-still-kill-you-5972313
 
Why was he even pointing the gun at her? This is the big question.
 
Naughty_Felid said:
I did an extreme marathon bike ride. I'd really prepared for it. There were people who did the half race, (still pretty difficult), who were all over the place. I stopped and offered assistance several times as it was a horribly hot weekend. People just had no idea what they needed to do to stay hydrated and yet keep enough calories burning or look after themselves.


If you do it enough your body will tell exactly what it needs whether it is calories, water, or electrolytes.
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Not necessarily. My body just doesn't generally feel thirst. I have ENORMOUS trouble getting enough fluid into myself, because I just don't feel the need. Even in forty two degree heat in Oz, people were having to remind me to drink water.

When I get in from a long run I have to have reminders set up in order to rehydrate. Often the first I will know of dehydration is that I get a banging headache, and then I'm 'oh, yes, water a couple of hours ago would have been a good move'.
 
catseye said:
Not necessarily. My body just doesn't generally feel thirst. I have ENORMOUS trouble getting enough fluid into myself, because I just don't feel the need. Even in forty two degree heat in Oz, people were having to remind me to drink water.

When I get in from a long run I have to have reminders set up in order to rehydrate. Often the first I will know of dehydration is that I get a banging headache, and then I'm 'oh, yes, water a couple of hours ago would have been a good move'.
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I have to keep reminding my Mum to drink fluid. Water, tea, whatever.
I have painstakingly explained to her that old people who don't drink enough fluid eventually go into decline and then die. Even so, she still won't take any notice of me.
 
catseye said:
Not necessarily. My body just doesn't generally feel thirst. I have ENORMOUS trouble getting enough fluid into myself, because I just don't feel the need. Even in forty two degree heat in Oz, people were having to remind me to drink water.

When I get in from a long run I have to have reminders set up in order to rehydrate. Often the first I will know of dehydration is that I get a banging headache, and then I'm 'oh, yes, water a couple of hours ago would have been a good move'.
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When you can't eat enough to keep up with the calorie burn and are literally starving you'll know.
 
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