Strange Deaths

Endlessly Amazed

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It only takes one bad decision to spin a problematic situation into a disaster.

My first guess would be that the baby fell ill and the parents lingered together trying to deal with the child until it was too late for either of them to go seek help (or potable water).
More random thoughts on the dead hiking family and dog. I think that what Enola Gaia suggested was the likely case. If it is true that only one water container was found with them…

“A sole container for water found with the family, an 85-ounce water bladder backpack, was empty.” John Gerrish, Ellen Chung died from hyperthermia while hiking in California, Mariposa County sheriff says - The Washington Post

…then that could help explain what happened. A single water bag means that everyone had to stay together because if they split up, somebody would have to be without the water.

(Side bar - I never go out hiking without my own water, light, communications, etc. that I carry on my own person. Even if inconvenient or likely not necessary. When my husband and I go out driving in the wilderness, our SUV has enough food and water (and emergency blankets and first aid and…) to last days. Gallons of water. Of course, if it is 110F, then the heat will likely kill us if I get lost in the middle of nowhere and the car breaks down/runs out of gas. Like what nearly happened to us 6 months ago. Stupidity WTF score: 2)

Also, if this family had not told someone where they were going to go hiking, and when they would be back, or if they had not written their plans on a piece of paper and put it under a windshield wiper on their vehicle (common in the US at trailheads), then this could help explain why it took so long to find them on an established trail. I had wondered why it took so long to find them.

The outdoors or wilderness is merciless. In the past month, 3 people died in separate incidents while on vacation here in central Arizona from heat and dehydration. All were from the east coast of the US, all were on public, well-marked trails. In September – October, the air temperatures can easily get over 105F. The ground temperatures can get and stay at over 140F. Here are the details of the three recent deaths, from what I could gather from news sources, as well as my own obnoxious WTF scores:

1. Dyer. Tonto forest trail. With companion on marked trail when he collapsed. She left him and left the only map they had with him in case he recovered (WTF) and then she got lost (WTF). Had cell phones but no reception in the wilderness area. Not in the Phoenix metro area. Apparently took no water with them. He died, she barely survived. WTF score: 2

2. Tramonte. Phoenix trail. Took no water (WTF). Decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF). Told companion to continue without her to the top of the trail so they could take photos to post on social media. (WTF. No comment), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

3. Miller. Scottsdale trail. Started hike at noon (WTF too hot). Didn’t know area, decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

It only takes one bad decision to make a fatal error. All these people who died while hiking on public, marked trails made mistakes.

When I am out in the boonies, I always pay special attention to people who are wearing expensive, unscuffed gear. They are the ones who are proud and can’t ask for help or receive it. They are the ones who are composing narratives in their heads about how they will tell their friends how great their outing was. Rather than paying attention to their outing. Like the elderly couple in new expensive gear I ran across at sunset (dark) in autumn (cold and windy) as they started down a little used trail in the Grand Canyon. They looked at my scuffed up boots with hundreds of miles on them and said they would be fine. I told the ranger station about them and hope it worked out ok.

End of rant.
 

Gizmos Mama

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More random thoughts on the dead hiking family and dog. I think that what Enola Gaia suggested was the likely case. If it is true that only one water container was found with them…

“A sole container for water found with the family, an 85-ounce water bladder backpack, was empty.” John Gerrish, Ellen Chung died from hyperthermia while hiking in California, Mariposa County sheriff says - The Washington Post

…then that could help explain what happened. A single water bag means that everyone had to stay together because if they split up, somebody would have to be without the water.

(Side bar - I never go out hiking without my own water, light, communications, etc. that I carry on my own person. Even if inconvenient or likely not necessary. When my husband and I go out driving in the wilderness, our SUV has enough food and water (and emergency blankets and first aid and…) to last days. Gallons of water. Of course, if it is 110F, then the heat will likely kill us if I get lost in the middle of nowhere and the car breaks down/runs out of gas. Like what nearly happened to us 6 months ago. Stupidity WTF score: 2)

Also, if this family had not told someone where they were going to go hiking, and when they would be back, or if they had not written their plans on a piece of paper and put it under a windshield wiper on their vehicle (common in the US at trailheads), then this could help explain why it took so long to find them on an established trail. I had wondered why it took so long to find them.

The outdoors or wilderness is merciless. In the past month, 3 people died in separate incidents while on vacation here in central Arizona from heat and dehydration. All were from the east coast of the US, all were on public, well-marked trails. In September – October, the air temperatures can easily get over 105F. The ground temperatures can get and stay at over 140F. Here are the details of the three recent deaths, from what I could gather from news sources, as well as my own obnoxious WTF scores:

1. Dyer. Tonto forest trail. With companion on marked trail when he collapsed. She left him and left the only map they had with him in case he recovered (WTF) and then she got lost (WTF). Had cell phones but no reception in the wilderness area. Not in the Phoenix metro area. Apparently took no water with them. He died, she barely survived. WTF score: 2

2. Tramonte. Phoenix trail. Took no water (WTF). Decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF). Told companion to continue without her to the top of the trail so they could take photos to post on social media. (WTF. No comment), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

3. Miller. Scottsdale trail. Started hike at noon (WTF too hot). Didn’t know area, decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

It only takes one bad decision to make a fatal error. All these people who died while hiking on public, marked trails made mistakes.

When I am out in the boonies, I always pay special attention to people who are wearing expensive, unscuffed gear. They are the ones who are proud and can’t ask for help or receive it. They are the ones who are composing narratives in their heads about how they will tell their friends how great their outing was. Rather than paying attention to their outing. Like the elderly couple in new expensive gear I ran across at sunset (dark) in autumn (cold and windy) as they started down a little used trail in the Grand Canyon. They looked at my scuffed up boots with hundreds of miles on them and said they would be fine. I told the ranger station about them and hope it worked out ok.

End of rant.
I don't even know what to say about the incidents you listed above.

What are these people doing? What do they think a cell phone is for, if not to use in an emergency. It's bad enough being in a place, having the phone but no reception. But having a live cell phone and never calling for help? BIG WTF!

A very recent incident where a hiker got lost and was overdue, and refused to answer calls from rescuers because it was an "unlisted" number! The hiker also didn't even bother to use their working phone to call and let friends know they weren't dead. WTF?

I'm conflicted. I feel bad for the individuals because of their ignorance of the dangers, and the probably horrible ends they came to as a result. But at a certain point, I just feel like if you are too stupid to use a phone to call for help, well, nature will make you pay for that stupidity/ignorance/arrogance.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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I don't even know what to say about the incidents you listed above.

What are these people doing? What do they think a cell phone is for, if not to use in an emergency. It's bad enough being in a place, having the phone but no reception. But having a live cell phone and never calling for help? BIG WTF!

A very recent incident where a hiker got lost and was overdue, and refused to answer calls from rescuers because it was an "unlisted" number! The hiker also didn't even bother to use their working phone to call and let friends know they weren't dead. WTF?

I'm conflicted. I feel bad for the individuals because of their ignorance of the dangers, and the probably horrible ends they came to as a result. But at a certain point, I just feel like if you are too stupid to use a phone to call for help, well, nature will make you pay for that stupidity/ignorance/arrogance.
“What are these people doing?” I don’t know. I suspect that they are embarrassed about being lost or needing help, and so don’t use their phone to call for help, don’t answer their phone, etc. Also, pure conjecture on my part, but I suspect that some people have social circles (real life, social media, and perhaps just in their heads) in which they imagine themselves recounting their outdoor hikes and how great they were.

Admitting they were in over their heads would be an admission of failure many find impossible. I think social embarrassment is a huge force in society, and one underestimated. I have felt it myself – and I am a founding member of the North American chapter of Fuck Ups Anonymous and should certainly know better :)
 

Nosmo King

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This guy probably accounts for about a third of the total.

"Everything I have is legal in the state of Colorado"

I watch a programme with American comedian Rich Hall, he said that Colorado is the only state where you could drive a car, fire a gun and drink a beer at the same time.
“What are these people doing?” I don’t know. I suspect that they are embarrassed about being lost or needing help, and so don’t use their phone to call for help, don’t answer their phone, etc. Also, pure conjecture on my part, but I suspect that some people have social circles (real life, social media, and perhaps just in their heads) in which they imagine themselves recounting their outdoor hikes and how great they were.

Admitting they were in over their heads would be an admission of failure many find impossible. I think social embarrassment is a huge force in society, and one underestimated. I have felt it myself – and I am a founding member of the North American chapter of Fuck Ups Anonymous and should certainly know better :)
You would have thought, bearing death, would overcome any embarrassment factor
 

Gizmos Mama

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“What are these people doing?” I don’t know. I suspect that they are embarrassed about being lost or needing help, and so don’t use their phone to call for help, don’t answer their phone, etc. Also, pure conjecture on my part, but I suspect that some people have social circles (real life, social media, and perhaps just in their heads) in which they imagine themselves recounting their outdoor hikes and how great they were.

Admitting they were in over their heads would be an admission of failure many find impossible. I think social embarrassment is a huge force in society, and one underestimated. I have felt it myself – and I am a founding member of the North American chapter of Fuck Ups Anonymous and should certainly know better :)
I guess I have no shame! lol
As so, I'd never considered that you can die from embarrassment for real!

(edited words for clarity)
 

ChasFink

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I was thinking about the Rust shooting, and recalled other dangerous weapons situations in films of the past.

In Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood, a.k.a. Spider Web Castle, Toshiro Mifune dodges huge volleys of arrows. The effect was supposedly done with forced perspective and the arrows fired far from the actor, but you can see him gesturing in the direction the archers should shoot to avoid him, so maybe not so far away.

Andrzej Wajda's A Generation featured several killings with a machine gun. Because the gun's mechanism relied on bullets in the cartridges to advance the belt, live ammo was used, with actors shooting into sandbags near the "victims". The film did use special effects as well, being perhaps the first to use blood-filled squibs.

As far as I know, no one was hurt on either film.
 

PeteS

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There's an article on the Variety website about gun safety in European movies and television

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-prop-gun-weapons-masters-europe-1235098549/
Of course guidelines, regulations, and licences are meaningless if those using weapons are incompetent.

I watch a UK programme called Combat Dealers and am amazed how WW2 weapons and vehicles firing live ammo and mines etc are demonstrated to customers with (on the face of it) not a huge amount elf 'n safety going on. Might all be edited out of course and I'm not suggesting this bloke and his crew are not experts and up to it, but you can envisage how very easily an accident could happen. A restricted PAK 40 field gun was shown being derestricted simply by hammering out the plug welded into the barrel and then shown being fired with a blank. Still, a rather large explosion occurred on a gun which was 75 years old.

I knew someone who was in the re enactment hobby in the UK and the field gun he was operating firing blanks somehow back fired and blew his hand off and in the not too distant past 2 people in the US were killed in an explosion on their WW2 tank. Weapons and people don't really mix safely.
 

maximus otter

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elf ‘n safety…Might all be edited out of course…

Yep.

Weapons and people don't really mix safely.

Yet for over half a century l have fired, or been in close proximity to the firing of, hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of cartridges by thousands of people, and have never seen so much as a cut finger.

maximus otter
 

Bigphoot2

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I was thinking about the Rust shooting, and recalled other dangerous weapons situations in films of the past.

In Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood, a.k.a. Spider Web Castle, Toshiro Mifune dodges huge volleys of arrows. The effect was supposedly done with forced perspective and the arrows fired far from the actor, but you can see him gesturing in the direction the archers should shoot to avoid him, so maybe not so far away.

Andrzej Wajda's A Generation featured several killings with a machine gun. Because the gun's mechanism relied on bullets in the cartridges to advance the belt, live ammo was used, with actors shooting into sandbags near the "victims". The film did use special effects as well, being perhaps the first to use blood-filled squibs.

As far as I know, no one was hurt on either film.
An interview with the archer from Throne of Blood
 

maximus otter

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I would expect nothing less from a celebrated Police officer.


giphy-downsized-large.gif


maximus otter
 

Floyd1

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I know that historically they called on people with experience rather than box ticking. I recall Churchill the firearms expert.

On the other hand not so long ago I attended a trial where the alleged IT 'expert' - about 25 - knew sod all. If they'd let me cross examine him I'd have reduced him to quivering jelly.
I can't remember who this happened to, (maybe MrsF), but there was the case where an IT bod was called out to an office to fix a computer that wasn't working but they couldn't determine the problem. After a good while someone else eventually realised that it wasn't plugged in.
 

Nosmo King

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I can't remember who this happened to, (maybe MrsF), but there was the case where an IT bod was called out to an office to fix a computer that wasn't working but they couldn't determine the problem. After a good while someone else eventually realised that it wasn't plugged in.
 

escargot

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“What are these people doing?” I don’t know. I suspect that they are embarrassed about being lost or needing help, and so don’t use their phone to call for help, don’t answer their phone, etc. Also, pure conjecture on my part, but I suspect that some people have social circles (real life, social media, and perhaps just in their heads) in which they imagine themselves recounting their outdoor hikes and how great they were.

Admitting they were in over their heads would be an admission of failure many find impossible. I think social embarrassment is a huge force in society, and one underestimated. I have felt it myself – and I am a founding member of the North American chapter of Fuck Ups Anonymous and should certainly know better :)

Your British counterpart here, checking in - :salute:

What happens is that, as you'll know, untrained people who push it a bit with the survival activities don't know it's all going wrong until it's too late. They don't know when to turn back or ask for help.

Trained people can spot the pearshapedness right away and start a new plan.

I'm really good at this. Not specific wilderness survival procedures, but just knowing when I'm beaten. :wink2:
It's better to abandon an expedition and be sure of getting home safely than to soldier on and make things worse.

Had this a couple of years ago with a cycling trip up a Welsh mountain. Made the schoolgirl error of letting Techy assess the weather situation and talk me out of taking waterproofs. In Wales. :rolleyes:
 

escargot

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I can't remember who this happened to, (maybe MrsF), but there was the case where an IT bod was called out to an office to fix a computer that wasn't working but they couldn't determine the problem. After a good while someone else eventually realised that it wasn't plugged in.
When I was at university in Hungary, early 2000s, there was no wireless or broadband and the few people who had laptops couldn't go online with them.*

The only computers available were all together in a huge hall and you got an hour at a time a day. So you could use one in the morning, then four hours later you could go back, and so on. There were never enough computers so you'd wander the hall looking for one that was free.

After your hour was up you could surreptitiously unplug the monitor then report it as faulty, knowing it wouldn't be seen to for at least a day.
Four hours later you could pop back, remove the OUT OF ORDER sign, replug and carry on.

Nobody noticed because they were all concentrating on their puny hour of uptime.

*Back in Blighty, my nephew started a degree around the same time and had access to broadband on a cable for a small fee in his on-campus accommodation. Techy provided a work-surplus PC and Nephew was MADE UP. :cool:

My son Escet was at Oxford and broadband there was free.
Well, it would be, wouldn't it. :wink2:
 

escargot

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Quoting myself here, ooer -

It's better to abandon an expedition and be sure of getting home safely than to soldier on and make things worse.
Reminded myself about a Mount Everest expedition that was abandoned close to the summit for some reason like a sudden dangerous change in the weather.

My first thought had been 'What? They could SEE the summit but they turned back!' and then it was 'Great leadership and teamwork there, putting people's safety first.'

They knew they were beaten. But you're still not beaten if you KNOW you're beaten; a tactical withdrawal is sometimes good enough. :cool:
 

Carse

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Quoting myself here, ooer -


Reminded myself about a Mount Everest expedition that was abandoned close to the summit for some reason like a sudden dangerous change in the weather.

My first thought had been 'What? They could SEE the summit but they turned back!' and then it was 'Great leadership and teamwork there, putting people's safety first.'

They knew they were beaten. But you're still not beaten if you KNOW you're beaten; a tactical withdrawal is sometimes good enough. :cool:
For me the ultimate example of carrying-on-when-really-you-should-have-turned-back-long-ago is the sad tale of the Death Valley Germans and their disastrous quest to return their rented car by driving through the Mojave. The story of how their remains were found by an amateur searcher long after the authorities gave up looking is fascinating in itself:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
 
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Endlessly Amazed

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For me the ultimate example of carrying-on-when-really-you-should-have-turned-back-long-ago is the sad tale of the Death Valley Germans and their disastrous quest to return their rented car by driving through the Mjohave. The story of how their remains were found by an amateur searcher long after the authorities gave up looking is fascinating in itself:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
Wow. What a great website; thank you for posting it for us. I will read through the many thoughtful essays. That German family who all died: what were they thinking? They had multiple opportunities to turn around, but they didn’t. …A few decades later, I regularly run across tourists from Germany in the American southwest wilderness, doing inexplicable things and inconveniencing others with their, er, insouciance. (For those who feel the need to defend them, I never run into this stuff with Asians, Brits, Canadians, the French, etc.)

I have hiked and climbed in that type of terrain, although, as I have gotten older and have different responsibilities, those types of adventures have ended. I never hike in the summer desert by myself. The margin of error is too small. For those who may never have hiked in difficult remote desert terrain: it is impossible to describe how physically taxing it can be, and how quickly things can go wrong. No trails, no water, no shade, etc. But the most beautiful, unexpected sights and experiences.
 

SimonBurchell

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For me the ultimate example of carrying-on-when-really-you-should-have-turned-back-long-ago is the sad tale of the Death Valley Germans and their disastrous quest to return their rented car by driving through the Mjohave. The story of how their remains were found by an amateur searcher long after the authorities gave up looking is fascinating in itself:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
That was a damn good read, and ate up more of my time than it really should have!
 
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Giant R

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Of course guidelines, regulations, and licences are meaningless if those using weapons are incompetent.

I watch a UK programme called Combat Dealers and am amazed how WW2 weapons and vehicles firing live ammo and mines etc are demonstrated to customers with (on the face of it) not a huge amount elf 'n safety going on. Might all be edited out of course and I'm not suggesting this bloke and his crew are not experts and up to it, but you can envisage how very easily an accident could happen. A restricted PAK 40 field gun was shown being derestricted simply by hammering out the plug welded into the barrel and then shown being fired with a blank. Still, a rather large explosion occurred on a gun which was 75 years old.

I knew someone who was in the re enactment hobby in the UK and the field gun he was operating firing blanks somehow back fired and blew his hand off and in the not too distant past 2 people in the US were killed in an explosion on their WW2 tank. Weapons and people don't really mix safely.
I have watched Combat Dealers once or twice and would like to watch more but the boss of the company grates on me for some reason.
I would be very wary of using any weapon from WW2 though. When you think that these things were churned out as quickly as possible with no thought to longevity, are they really safe to be fired 80 odd years later. When you see a Sten gun for instance, it couldn't be more cheaply made.
I knew someone once who used to fly a vintage (civilian) biplane and he said he would never fly in a WW2 wartime aircraft for the same reason.
 

Lb8535

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More random thoughts on the dead hiking family and dog. I think that what Enola Gaia suggested was the likely case. If it is true that only one water container was found with them…

“A sole container for water found with the family, an 85-ounce water bladder backpack, was empty.” John Gerrish, Ellen Chung died from hyperthermia while hiking in California, Mariposa County sheriff says - The Washington Post

…then that could help explain what happened. A single water bag means that everyone had to stay together because if they split up, somebody would have to be without the water.

(Side bar - I never go out hiking without my own water, light, communications, etc. that I carry on my own person. Even if inconvenient or likely not necessary. When my husband and I go out driving in the wilderness, our SUV has enough food and water (and emergency blankets and first aid and…) to last days. Gallons of water. Of course, if it is 110F, then the heat will likely kill us if I get lost in the middle of nowhere and the car breaks down/runs out of gas. Like what nearly happened to us 6 months ago. Stupidity WTF score: 2)

Also, if this family had not told someone where they were going to go hiking, and when they would be back, or if they had not written their plans on a piece of paper and put it under a windshield wiper on their vehicle (common in the US at trailheads), then this could help explain why it took so long to find them on an established trail. I had wondered why it took so long to find them.

The outdoors or wilderness is merciless. In the past month, 3 people died in separate incidents while on vacation here in central Arizona from heat and dehydration. All were from the east coast of the US, all were on public, well-marked trails. In September – October, the air temperatures can easily get over 105F. The ground temperatures can get and stay at over 140F. Here are the details of the three recent deaths, from what I could gather from news sources, as well as my own obnoxious WTF scores:

1. Dyer. Tonto forest trail. With companion on marked trail when he collapsed. She left him and left the only map they had with him in case he recovered (WTF) and then she got lost (WTF). Had cell phones but no reception in the wilderness area. Not in the Phoenix metro area. Apparently took no water with them. He died, she barely survived. WTF score: 2

2. Tramonte. Phoenix trail. Took no water (WTF). Decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF). Told companion to continue without her to the top of the trail so they could take photos to post on social media. (WTF. No comment), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

3. Miller. Scottsdale trail. Started hike at noon (WTF too hot). Didn’t know area, decided to go off separately from companion while on hike (WTF), had cell phone and reception but didn’t call (WTF). WTF score: 3

It only takes one bad decision to make a fatal error. All these people who died while hiking on public, marked trails made mistakes.

When I am out in the boonies, I always pay special attention to people who are wearing expensive, unscuffed gear. They are the ones who are proud and can’t ask for help or receive it. They are the ones who are composing narratives in their heads about how they will tell their friends how great their outing was. Rather than paying attention to their outing. Like the elderly couple in new expensive gear I ran across at sunset (dark) in autumn (cold and windy) as they started down a little used trail in the Grand Canyon. They looked at my scuffed up boots with hundreds of miles on them and said they would be fine. I told the ranger station about them and hope it worked out ok.

End of rant.
So right. When I (NYC) visit an old friend in NM and say I'm taking off for the four corners area (in my car) maybe going to Canyon de Chelly she makes me show her my route and tells me the recent stories about cars that went off the road in a. winter or b. summer and were found four months later.
 

Lb8535

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I was thinking about the Rust shooting, and recalled other dangerous weapons situations in films of the past.

In Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood, a.k.a. Spider Web Castle, Toshiro Mifune dodges huge volleys of arrows. The effect was supposedly done with forced perspective and the arrows fired far from the actor, but you can see him gesturing in the direction the archers should shoot to avoid him, so maybe not so far away.

Andrzej Wajda's A Generation featured several killings with a machine gun. Because the gun's mechanism relied on bullets in the cartridges to advance the belt, live ammo was used, with actors shooting into sandbags near the "victims". The film did use special effects as well, being perhaps the first to use blood-filled squibs.

As far as I know, no one was hurt on either film.
I don't think the machine gun one was filmed in the US, don't think it's allowed at least not in the past 50 years. There are however many instances of a shot of the person firing the gun or whatever and then a shot of the actor running away from the person with the gun with evidences of projectiles hitting around him as he runs. These second shots are done with pre-set radio-controlled squibs, very small explosives that create the effect of bullets or shells hitting something dramatic, sometimes with smoke and flames, and there are many stories about actors who did not follow the carefully-planned blocking when they ran or squibs that fired or were fired a little too early thereby exploding way too close to the performer. Harrison Ford in particular in one of the Indiana's later said about a take used in the film that he honestly was running for his life because (he said) the squib was early. If I were Mifune I'd be reminding them what direction to fire in just before the take too,
 

Trevp666

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I watch a programme with American comedian Rich Hall, he said that Colorado is the only state where you could drive a car, fire a gun and drink a beer at the same time.
Sounds like a fun, if dangerous, place to live.
 

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Clarification: A Generation was a 1950s Polish film on a relatively small budget.
 

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For me the ultimate example of carrying-on-when-really-you-should-have-turned-back-long-ago is the sad tale of the Death Valley Germans and their disastrous quest to return their rented car by driving through the Mjohave. The story of how their remains were found by an amateur searcher long after the authorities gave up looking is fascinating in itself:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
I think that, while hiking to their deaths, the fact that the majority of the liquid they had to consume was alcoholic did not help the German tourists with sound decision making.
 
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ChasFink

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I watch a programme with American comedian Rich Hall, he said that Colorado is the only state where you could drive a car, fire a gun and drink a beer at the same time.

Sounds like a fun, if dangerous, place to live.
If I remember correctly, Craig Ferguson decided to become an American when he saw a drive-through store (in Florida?) that sold guns, liquor, and fireworks.
 

Trevp666

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If I remember correctly, Craig Ferguson decided to become an American when he saw a drive-through store (in Florida?) that sold guns, liquor, and fireworks.
AND fireworks?! That makes for an exciting evening.
 

Carse

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I think that, while hiking to their deaths, the majority of the liquid they had to consume was alcoholic did not help the German tourists with sound decision making.
Indeed, the quantity of alcohol found in the vehicle and with the remains makes me think that the adults had spent most of the holiday boozed up and as you say it would certainly have led to impaired decision making (and dehydration).

I've also read somewhere that during the cold war the woman, Conny, drove a Trebant from Germany to the Pacific coast of the USSR on her own, which strikes me as being a very adventurous thing to do and indicates she may not have been very risk-averse.
 
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