DougalLongfoot
Abominable Snowman
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rynner2 said:
Shouldn't Rynner's post be in the ghosts forum?
History Rewritten: Myths Busted & New Truths Uncovered
- Thread starter rynner2
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Shouldn't Rynner's post be in the ghosts forum?
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Not his finest hour: As a young man, Churchill's views on race and democracy beggared belief
By Johann Hari
Thursday, 28 October 2010
Winston Churchill is rightly remembered for leading Britain through her finest hour – but what if he also led the country through her most shameful hour? What if, in addition to rousing a nation to save the world from the Nazis, he fought for a raw white supremacism and a concentration camp network of his own? This question burns through Richard Toye's new history, Churchill's Empire, and is even seeping into the Oval Office.
George W Bush left a bust of Churchill near his desk in the White House, in an attempt to associate himself with the war leader's heroic stand against fascism. Barack Obama had it returned to Britain. It's not hard to guess why: his Kenyan grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was imprisoned without trial for two years and was tortured on Churchill's watch, for resisting Churchill's empire.
Can these clashing Churchills be reconciled? Do we live, at the same time, in the world he helped to save, and the world he helped to trash? Toye, one of Britain's smartest young historians, has tried to pick through these questions dispassionately – and he should lead us, at last and at least, to a more mature conversation about our greatest national icon.
Churchill was born in 1874 into a Britain that was washing the map pink, at the cost of washing distant nations blood red. Victoria had just been crowned Empress of India, and the scramble for Africa was only a few years away. At Harrow School and then Sandhurst, he was told a simple story: the superior white man was conquering the primitive, dark-skinned natives, and bringing them the benefits of civilisation. As soon as he could, Churchill charged off to take his part in "a lot of jolly little wars against barbarous peoples". In the Swat valley, now part of Pakistan, he experienced, fleetingly, a crack of doubt. He realised that the local population was fighting back because of "the presence of British troops in lands the local people considered their own," just as Britain would if she were invaded. But Churchill soon suppressed this thought, deciding instead they were merely deranged jihadists whose violence was explained by a "strong aboriginal propensity to kill".
He gladly took part in raids that laid waste to whole valleys, destroying houses and burning crops. He then sped off to help reconquer the Sudan, where he bragged that he personally shot at least three "savages".
The young Churchill charged through imperial atrocities, defending each in turn. When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced "the minimum of suffering". The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his "irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men". Later, he boasted of his experiences there: "That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about."
Then as an MP he demanded a rolling programme of more conquests, based on his belief that "the Aryan stock is bound to triumph". There seems to have been an odd cognitive dissonance in his view of the "natives". In some of his private correspondence, he appears to really believe they are helpless children who will "willingly, naturally, gratefully include themselves within the golden circle of an ancient crown".
But when they defied this script, Churchill demanded they be crushed with extreme force. As Colonial Secretary in the 1920s, he unleashed the notorious Black and Tan thugs on Ireland's Catholic civilians, and when the Kurds rebelled against British rule, he said: "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes...[It] would spread a lively terror."
Of course, it's easy to dismiss any criticism of these actions as anachronistic. Didn't everybody think that way then? One of the most striking findings of Toye's research is that they really didn't: even at the time, Churchill was seen as at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin was warned by Cabinet colleagues not to appoint him because his views were so antedeluvian. Even his startled doctor, Lord Moran, said of other races: "Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin."
[...]
The US civil rights leader Richard B. Moore, quoted by Toye, said it was "a rare and fortunate coincidence" that at that moment "the vital interests of the British Empire [coincided] with those of the great overwhelming majority of mankind". But this might be too soft in its praise. If Churchill had only been interested in saving the Empire, he could probably have cut a deal with Hitler. No: he had a deeper repugnance for Nazism than that. He may have been a thug, but he knew a greater thug when he saw one – and we may owe our freedom today to this wrinkle in history.
This, in turn, led to the great irony of Churchill's life. In resisting the Nazis, he produced some of the richest prose-poetry in defence of freedom and democracy ever written. It was a cheque he didn't want black or Asian people to cash – but they refused to accept that the Bank of Justice was empty. As the Ghanaian nationalist Kwame Nkrumah wrote: "All the fair, brave words spoken about freedom that had been broadcast to the four corners of the earth took seed and grew where they had not been intended." Churchill lived to see democrats across Britain's dominions and colonies – from nationalist leader Aung San in Burma to Jawarlal Nehru in India – use his own intoxicating words against him.
Ultimately, the words of the great and glorious Churchill who resisted dictatorship overwhelmed the works of the cruel and cramped Churchill who tried to impose it on the darker-skinned peoples of the world. The fact that we now live in a world where a free and independent India is a superpower eclipsing Britain, and a grandson of the Kikuyu "savages" is the most powerful man in the world, is a repudiation of Churchill at his ugliest – and a sweet, ironic victory for Churchill at his best.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18317.html
By Johann Hari
Thursday, 28 October 2010
Winston Churchill is rightly remembered for leading Britain through her finest hour – but what if he also led the country through her most shameful hour? What if, in addition to rousing a nation to save the world from the Nazis, he fought for a raw white supremacism and a concentration camp network of his own? This question burns through Richard Toye's new history, Churchill's Empire, and is even seeping into the Oval Office.
George W Bush left a bust of Churchill near his desk in the White House, in an attempt to associate himself with the war leader's heroic stand against fascism. Barack Obama had it returned to Britain. It's not hard to guess why: his Kenyan grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was imprisoned without trial for two years and was tortured on Churchill's watch, for resisting Churchill's empire.
Can these clashing Churchills be reconciled? Do we live, at the same time, in the world he helped to save, and the world he helped to trash? Toye, one of Britain's smartest young historians, has tried to pick through these questions dispassionately – and he should lead us, at last and at least, to a more mature conversation about our greatest national icon.
Churchill was born in 1874 into a Britain that was washing the map pink, at the cost of washing distant nations blood red. Victoria had just been crowned Empress of India, and the scramble for Africa was only a few years away. At Harrow School and then Sandhurst, he was told a simple story: the superior white man was conquering the primitive, dark-skinned natives, and bringing them the benefits of civilisation. As soon as he could, Churchill charged off to take his part in "a lot of jolly little wars against barbarous peoples". In the Swat valley, now part of Pakistan, he experienced, fleetingly, a crack of doubt. He realised that the local population was fighting back because of "the presence of British troops in lands the local people considered their own," just as Britain would if she were invaded. But Churchill soon suppressed this thought, deciding instead they were merely deranged jihadists whose violence was explained by a "strong aboriginal propensity to kill".
He gladly took part in raids that laid waste to whole valleys, destroying houses and burning crops. He then sped off to help reconquer the Sudan, where he bragged that he personally shot at least three "savages".
The young Churchill charged through imperial atrocities, defending each in turn. When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced "the minimum of suffering". The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his "irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men". Later, he boasted of his experiences there: "That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about."
Then as an MP he demanded a rolling programme of more conquests, based on his belief that "the Aryan stock is bound to triumph". There seems to have been an odd cognitive dissonance in his view of the "natives". In some of his private correspondence, he appears to really believe they are helpless children who will "willingly, naturally, gratefully include themselves within the golden circle of an ancient crown".
But when they defied this script, Churchill demanded they be crushed with extreme force. As Colonial Secretary in the 1920s, he unleashed the notorious Black and Tan thugs on Ireland's Catholic civilians, and when the Kurds rebelled against British rule, he said: "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes...[It] would spread a lively terror."
Of course, it's easy to dismiss any criticism of these actions as anachronistic. Didn't everybody think that way then? One of the most striking findings of Toye's research is that they really didn't: even at the time, Churchill was seen as at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin was warned by Cabinet colleagues not to appoint him because his views were so antedeluvian. Even his startled doctor, Lord Moran, said of other races: "Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin."
[...]
The US civil rights leader Richard B. Moore, quoted by Toye, said it was "a rare and fortunate coincidence" that at that moment "the vital interests of the British Empire [coincided] with those of the great overwhelming majority of mankind". But this might be too soft in its praise. If Churchill had only been interested in saving the Empire, he could probably have cut a deal with Hitler. No: he had a deeper repugnance for Nazism than that. He may have been a thug, but he knew a greater thug when he saw one – and we may owe our freedom today to this wrinkle in history.
This, in turn, led to the great irony of Churchill's life. In resisting the Nazis, he produced some of the richest prose-poetry in defence of freedom and democracy ever written. It was a cheque he didn't want black or Asian people to cash – but they refused to accept that the Bank of Justice was empty. As the Ghanaian nationalist Kwame Nkrumah wrote: "All the fair, brave words spoken about freedom that had been broadcast to the four corners of the earth took seed and grew where they had not been intended." Churchill lived to see democrats across Britain's dominions and colonies – from nationalist leader Aung San in Burma to Jawarlal Nehru in India – use his own intoxicating words against him.
Ultimately, the words of the great and glorious Churchill who resisted dictatorship overwhelmed the works of the cruel and cramped Churchill who tried to impose it on the darker-skinned peoples of the world. The fact that we now live in a world where a free and independent India is a superpower eclipsing Britain, and a grandson of the Kikuyu "savages" is the most powerful man in the world, is a repudiation of Churchill at his ugliest – and a sweet, ironic victory for Churchill at his best.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18317.html
BlackPeter
Ancient Badger
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- May 5, 2006
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- 449
Is that true of the other member states of Australia? 
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- 54,631
New evidence may write Lindbergh out of history as first to fly Atlantic
Research shows two French pilots made trip, but died on landing
By John Lichfield in Paris
Friday, 12 November 2010
The greatest single mystery of the early days of aviation has been solved, according to French researchers.
The American pilot Charles Lindbergh was not the first person to fly the full width of the Atlantic in 1927, the researchers say. He was merely the first person to land his aircraft successfully, and the first to live to tell the tale.
Documentary evidence dredged from US official archives shows that two French pilots reached the Canadian coast from Paris 10 days before Lindbergh flew the Spirit of Saint Louis from New York to Le Bourget on 20-21 May, 1927.
The evidence suggests that Charles Nungesser and François Coli landed their sea-plane, L'Oiseau Blanc, or The White Bird, just off the coast of the French islands of Saint-Pierre et Miquelon, near Newfoundland on 11 May. Their plane probably broke up on – or soon after – touching down and both men were killed.
The fate of Nungesser, 35, and Coli, 45, heroes of the French air force in the First World War, has been called the "Everest of aviation mysteries". Their disappearance has been the subject of speculation and conspiracy theories – including one which suggests they were shot down by American anti-Prohibition drink bootleggers – for almost a century.
Bernard Decré, 70, the creator of the "round France" yacht race and an aviation enthusiast, believes he has solved the mystery at last.
One of the last pieces in the jigsaw was an internal US Coast Guard telegram found by his team of researchers in the national archives in Washington DC last month. It tells of the remains of a white aircraft seen floating in the ocean 200 miles off New York on 18 August 1927, which "may be the wreck of the Coli-Nungesser airplane".
This evidence, and other documents unearthed in recent months in Newfoundland and St Pierre et Miquelon, leads Mr Decré to believe he has finally pieced together the story of Nungesser and Coli's 5,200-kilometre flight. Although they failed to meet the "challenge" of flying between New York and Paris, they were, he believes, the first to complete a full, or "long", crossing of the Atlantic and the first to cross the Atlantic by plane from east to west.
"My intention is not to disparage the magnificent achievement of Lindbergh," Mr Decré told The Independent yesterday. "Enormous credit is also due to the British pilots (John) Alcock and (Arthur) Brown, who were the first to complete a 'short' crossing of the Atlantic from Newfoundland to Ireland in 1919.
"But I believe that, just as any aircraft needs to be checked minutely before each flight, we must be as precise as we can about the early history of aviation. I believe that Nungesser and Coli, although they did not live to tell their story, should now be restored to an important place in that history."
Mr Decré said he believed both the American and French governments agreed at the time to cover up – or at least not pursue – substantial contemporary evidence that the Oiseau Blanc had reached the Newfoundland coast on 11 May. There had been considerable Franco-American political and popular tensions in the 1920s, fuelled by the rivalry to be the first to snatch the $25,000 prize offered by the New York hotelier Raymond Orteig for the first flight between New York and Paris.
Lindbergh's triumph made him a hero in France and the US, creating the mood for a declaration of Franco-American friendship later that year. In these circumstances, Mr Decré said it suited the French authorities to accept the original "official" story that the Oiseau Blanc had crashed in the Channel soon after take off.
There is documentary evidence, in Newfoundland archives, of an aircraft being seen and heard on 11 May. There are also well-documented witness reports, uncovered by Mr Decré's team, of the sound of an aircraft just off the coast of Saint Pierre et Miquelon between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Pieces of wing were picked up in the sea nearby.
Mr Decré dismisses the theory that the aircraft was shot down over Maine by bootleggers who feared it was a military or customs aircraft. However, he believes that Saint Pierre's role as a beachhead for illegal drinks exports to the US encouraged local officials to cover up the Oiseau Blanc's ill-fated landing off their coast. "The last thing that they wanted was officialdom from Paris snooping around," he said.
It was Nungesser and Coli's aim to land their sea-plane in New York harbour. Mr Decré believes that they realised they had insufficient fuel to reach New York. They landed in the sea close to Saint Pierre but the bi-plane, largely made of wood and canvas, broke up. Ocean currents carried part of the wreckage south to the New York coast.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 31824.html
Research shows two French pilots made trip, but died on landing
By John Lichfield in Paris
Friday, 12 November 2010
The greatest single mystery of the early days of aviation has been solved, according to French researchers.
The American pilot Charles Lindbergh was not the first person to fly the full width of the Atlantic in 1927, the researchers say. He was merely the first person to land his aircraft successfully, and the first to live to tell the tale.
Documentary evidence dredged from US official archives shows that two French pilots reached the Canadian coast from Paris 10 days before Lindbergh flew the Spirit of Saint Louis from New York to Le Bourget on 20-21 May, 1927.
The evidence suggests that Charles Nungesser and François Coli landed their sea-plane, L'Oiseau Blanc, or The White Bird, just off the coast of the French islands of Saint-Pierre et Miquelon, near Newfoundland on 11 May. Their plane probably broke up on – or soon after – touching down and both men were killed.
The fate of Nungesser, 35, and Coli, 45, heroes of the French air force in the First World War, has been called the "Everest of aviation mysteries". Their disappearance has been the subject of speculation and conspiracy theories – including one which suggests they were shot down by American anti-Prohibition drink bootleggers – for almost a century.
Bernard Decré, 70, the creator of the "round France" yacht race and an aviation enthusiast, believes he has solved the mystery at last.
One of the last pieces in the jigsaw was an internal US Coast Guard telegram found by his team of researchers in the national archives in Washington DC last month. It tells of the remains of a white aircraft seen floating in the ocean 200 miles off New York on 18 August 1927, which "may be the wreck of the Coli-Nungesser airplane".
This evidence, and other documents unearthed in recent months in Newfoundland and St Pierre et Miquelon, leads Mr Decré to believe he has finally pieced together the story of Nungesser and Coli's 5,200-kilometre flight. Although they failed to meet the "challenge" of flying between New York and Paris, they were, he believes, the first to complete a full, or "long", crossing of the Atlantic and the first to cross the Atlantic by plane from east to west.
"My intention is not to disparage the magnificent achievement of Lindbergh," Mr Decré told The Independent yesterday. "Enormous credit is also due to the British pilots (John) Alcock and (Arthur) Brown, who were the first to complete a 'short' crossing of the Atlantic from Newfoundland to Ireland in 1919.
"But I believe that, just as any aircraft needs to be checked minutely before each flight, we must be as precise as we can about the early history of aviation. I believe that Nungesser and Coli, although they did not live to tell their story, should now be restored to an important place in that history."
Mr Decré said he believed both the American and French governments agreed at the time to cover up – or at least not pursue – substantial contemporary evidence that the Oiseau Blanc had reached the Newfoundland coast on 11 May. There had been considerable Franco-American political and popular tensions in the 1920s, fuelled by the rivalry to be the first to snatch the $25,000 prize offered by the New York hotelier Raymond Orteig for the first flight between New York and Paris.
Lindbergh's triumph made him a hero in France and the US, creating the mood for a declaration of Franco-American friendship later that year. In these circumstances, Mr Decré said it suited the French authorities to accept the original "official" story that the Oiseau Blanc had crashed in the Channel soon after take off.
There is documentary evidence, in Newfoundland archives, of an aircraft being seen and heard on 11 May. There are also well-documented witness reports, uncovered by Mr Decré's team, of the sound of an aircraft just off the coast of Saint Pierre et Miquelon between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Pieces of wing were picked up in the sea nearby.
Mr Decré dismisses the theory that the aircraft was shot down over Maine by bootleggers who feared it was a military or customs aircraft. However, he believes that Saint Pierre's role as a beachhead for illegal drinks exports to the US encouraged local officials to cover up the Oiseau Blanc's ill-fated landing off their coast. "The last thing that they wanted was officialdom from Paris snooping around," he said.
It was Nungesser and Coli's aim to land their sea-plane in New York harbour. Mr Decré believes that they realised they had insufficient fuel to reach New York. They landed in the sea close to Saint Pierre but the bi-plane, largely made of wood and canvas, broke up. Ocean currents carried part of the wreckage south to the New York coast.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 31824.html
Anome
Bibliomancer
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- May 23, 2002
- Messages
- 5,528
- Location
- Left, and to the Back
I take the same approach to this as with George Mallory on Everest. Maybe they were the first, but I think surviving the experience is an important part. The word "Successful" may be appropriate here. Lindbergh was the first person to "successfully" cross the Atlantic by plane. Hillary and Tensing were the first people to "successfully" summit Everest. The others may have been earlier but they failed to complete the mission.
bagins_X
Devoted Cultist
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Messages
- 169
I dont mean to nit-pick here (well actually I do) but were not a couple of chaps by the names of Alcock and Brown first to fly the atlantic non-stop*? Lindbergh was the first to fly Single handed across, so were does that leave these french chaps?
Wm.
* shortist rought
ramonmercado
CyberPunk
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- Aug 19, 2003
- Messages
- 58,327
- Location
- Eblana
Perhaps the French were the first East to West flight?
bagins_X
Devoted Cultist
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Messages
- 169
and totaly fails to metion first east-west sucsessful* crossing of the Atlantic by Hermann Kohl, James Fitzmaurice, and Baron Gunther von Hunefeld in April 1928,(also a shorter rought)rynner2 said:Both Allcock and Brown, and the French E to W flight were mentioned in the original Indie piece...
Wm.
* i.e. arriving alive and well
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Revealed: Battle of Towton in 1461 was Britain's first proven gunfight... which killed 1% of the population
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 8:08 AM on 26th November 2010
It was the bloodiest battle ever fought on English soil and changed the course of history.
But a remarkable archaeological discovery means the Battle of Towton on March 29, 1461, will go down in history for another significant reason.
Artefacts unearthed by a metal detector in a Yorkshire field have shown that some of the earliest handguns were fired on this day - making it the first proven gun battle in British history.
The ten-hour clash between the Yorkists and the Lancastrians ended with the slaughter of 28,000 men - the equivalent of one per cent of the English population at the time.
Fought in a snowstorm, hundreds of arrows rained down on the opposing armies, who also massacred each other with swords in terrible scenes of close combat. Bodies were piled so high that fighting briefly ceased so they could be moved out the way.
Now researchers have learned that a number of Lancastrians were armed with these secret and deadly new weapons as well.
As well as the fragments of two separate gun barrels, archaeologists also found a lead bullet with an iron core.
According to Tim Sutherland, archaeologist from the University of York, this bullet is the 'earliest one to be found in Europe so far'.
'One bullet will have been fired at a time from a small calibre weapon like this, but it would have been deadly and the effect quite horrible at close range,' he said.
Although the size of the bronze weapon is not known, the barrel was 2cm in diameter. Gunpowder inside would have been ignited by lighting a taper.
The two 10cm fragments of gun were sent to a hi-tech laboratory in Oxfordshire for analysis. Dr Evelyn Godfrey from the ISIS Research Centre said: 'Almost certainly there are two different alloys which came from two different castings. They are almost certainly from two different guns.'
But the castings were 'incredibly poor' and the metal 'full of bubbles', making the gun liable to fall apart when fired.
The battle took place in a blizzard and the bitterly cold conditions would also have increased the risk of fracture when the gunpowder was ignited.
'It's no real surprise that it blew up when fired,' said Mr Sutherland. 'The manufacturing of firearms in that period of time was notoriously unreliable.'
Analysis of the internal coating of the gun fragments indicated it contained 'the constituent parts of gunpowder' and was therefore used in the battle.
The gun would certainly have been heavy and not easily carried on the front line. Researchers believe it would have been used at Towton as a method of intimidating the opposition.
Poor accuracy and difficulties in firing the gun made it of limited use on the battlefield itself, although the noise would certainly have scared the horses on both sides.
Mr Sutherland said literature existed indicating basic handguns like this may have been used in battle in Europe a few years earlier. However, the discovery of physical evidence at the site of the War of the Roses battle near Tadcaster, North Yorkshire, is the first hard proof archaeologists have got hold of.
He said: 'In terms of its rarity, we don't know of any other battlefield where one of these has turned up.
'In terms of the Towton battlefield, it's very important because we're looking at the cusp of the use of archery and the introduction of handguns. Guns didn't become common in battles for about 30 years or so. It's incredibly important and we still can't believe we've found this.'
Unfortunately the guns didn't do them much good as the forces of Henry V1 were defeated by the Yorkists, leaving 18-year-old Edward IV to claim the throne.
Indeed, evidence suggests the firearms were so badly made that they eventually blew up as they were fired and almost certainly killed the unfortunate soldier holding them.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z16O1Wy7yu
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 8:08 AM on 26th November 2010
It was the bloodiest battle ever fought on English soil and changed the course of history.
But a remarkable archaeological discovery means the Battle of Towton on March 29, 1461, will go down in history for another significant reason.
Artefacts unearthed by a metal detector in a Yorkshire field have shown that some of the earliest handguns were fired on this day - making it the first proven gun battle in British history.
The ten-hour clash between the Yorkists and the Lancastrians ended with the slaughter of 28,000 men - the equivalent of one per cent of the English population at the time.
Fought in a snowstorm, hundreds of arrows rained down on the opposing armies, who also massacred each other with swords in terrible scenes of close combat. Bodies were piled so high that fighting briefly ceased so they could be moved out the way.
Now researchers have learned that a number of Lancastrians were armed with these secret and deadly new weapons as well.
As well as the fragments of two separate gun barrels, archaeologists also found a lead bullet with an iron core.
According to Tim Sutherland, archaeologist from the University of York, this bullet is the 'earliest one to be found in Europe so far'.
'One bullet will have been fired at a time from a small calibre weapon like this, but it would have been deadly and the effect quite horrible at close range,' he said.
Although the size of the bronze weapon is not known, the barrel was 2cm in diameter. Gunpowder inside would have been ignited by lighting a taper.
The two 10cm fragments of gun were sent to a hi-tech laboratory in Oxfordshire for analysis. Dr Evelyn Godfrey from the ISIS Research Centre said: 'Almost certainly there are two different alloys which came from two different castings. They are almost certainly from two different guns.'
But the castings were 'incredibly poor' and the metal 'full of bubbles', making the gun liable to fall apart when fired.
The battle took place in a blizzard and the bitterly cold conditions would also have increased the risk of fracture when the gunpowder was ignited.
'It's no real surprise that it blew up when fired,' said Mr Sutherland. 'The manufacturing of firearms in that period of time was notoriously unreliable.'
Analysis of the internal coating of the gun fragments indicated it contained 'the constituent parts of gunpowder' and was therefore used in the battle.
The gun would certainly have been heavy and not easily carried on the front line. Researchers believe it would have been used at Towton as a method of intimidating the opposition.
Poor accuracy and difficulties in firing the gun made it of limited use on the battlefield itself, although the noise would certainly have scared the horses on both sides.
Mr Sutherland said literature existed indicating basic handguns like this may have been used in battle in Europe a few years earlier. However, the discovery of physical evidence at the site of the War of the Roses battle near Tadcaster, North Yorkshire, is the first hard proof archaeologists have got hold of.
He said: 'In terms of its rarity, we don't know of any other battlefield where one of these has turned up.
'In terms of the Towton battlefield, it's very important because we're looking at the cusp of the use of archery and the introduction of handguns. Guns didn't become common in battles for about 30 years or so. It's incredibly important and we still can't believe we've found this.'
Unfortunately the guns didn't do them much good as the forces of Henry V1 were defeated by the Yorkists, leaving 18-year-old Edward IV to claim the throne.
Indeed, evidence suggests the firearms were so badly made that they eventually blew up as they were fired and almost certainly killed the unfortunate soldier holding them.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z16O1Wy7yu
OneWingedBird
Beloved of Ra
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Messages
- 15,431
Until they could mass produce them, they really were better off training archers, the main advantage of early firearms was that any idiot could use one.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Christopher Colombowicz: America's discoverer Polish not Portuguese, claim historians
Last updated at 9:43 AM on 29th November 2010
He is celebrated as the humble Italian weaver who ended up discovering the Americas.
But the conventional wisdom relating to Christopher Columbus is under threat after academics concluded the explorer was actually a Polish immigrant.
An international team of distinguished professors have completed 20 years of painstaking research into his beginnings.
The fresh evidence about Columbus’ background is revealed in a new book by Manuel Rosa, an academic at Duke University in the United States.
He says the voyager was not from a family of humble Italian craftsmen as previously thought - but the son of Vladislav III, an exiled King of Poland.
‘The sheer weight of the evidence presented makes the old tale of a Genoese wool-weaver so obviously unbelievable that only a fool would continue to insist on it,’ Rosa said.
The academic argues that the only way Columbus persuaded the King of Spain to fund his journey across the Atlantic Ocean was because he was royalty himself.
For some reason he hid the true identity of his Polish biological father from most people during his lifetime, and history books have been none the wiser.
‘Another nutty conspiracy theory! That’s what I first supposed as I started to read... I now believe that Columbus is guilty of huge fraud carried out over two decades against his patrons,’ said US historian Prof. James T. McDonough.
Other historians first doubted Columbus’ Polish roots, but Rosa’s findings have been steadily gaining followers as the evidence comes to light.
‘This book will forever change the way we view our history,’ said Portuguese historian Prof. Jose Carlos Calazans. National Geographic is reportedly interested in making a documentary.
Until now, it was believed that Columbus, who was born in the Italian city of Genoa in 1451, was the son of Domenico Columbo, who was a weaver and had a cheese stall in a market in the city.
At the age of 22 Columbus started working for Genoese merchants trading throughout the Mediterranean, and three years later took part in a special trading expedition to northern Europe, docking at Bristol before continuing to Ireland and Iceland.
Throughout the 1480s, when Columbus was in his 30s, he traded along the African coast.
Historians say it is a myth that navigators thought the world was flat before Columbus sailed west – they had been using the stars at night as a primitive navigation system that assumed the earth was a sphere.
What sailors including Columbus didn’t know is how big the earth was, and how long it would take to sail round it.
When he persuaded financiers to back his voyage west in 1492, he had completely miscalculated the distances and thought that Asia would be where America is: he arrived in the Bahamas, thinking he was somewhere off the coast of China.
Columbus undertook three more return journeys across the Atlantic Ocean, each time hoping that he had found another part of Asia.
He set up Spanish colonies and became governor of the Caribbean island of Hispaniola, but was later put on trial in Spain for alleged abuse of power.
After Columbus’ death in 1506, European explorers continued to set up colonies and eventually empires in north and south America.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z16fTsbldO
Last updated at 9:43 AM on 29th November 2010
He is celebrated as the humble Italian weaver who ended up discovering the Americas.
But the conventional wisdom relating to Christopher Columbus is under threat after academics concluded the explorer was actually a Polish immigrant.
An international team of distinguished professors have completed 20 years of painstaking research into his beginnings.
The fresh evidence about Columbus’ background is revealed in a new book by Manuel Rosa, an academic at Duke University in the United States.
He says the voyager was not from a family of humble Italian craftsmen as previously thought - but the son of Vladislav III, an exiled King of Poland.
‘The sheer weight of the evidence presented makes the old tale of a Genoese wool-weaver so obviously unbelievable that only a fool would continue to insist on it,’ Rosa said.
The academic argues that the only way Columbus persuaded the King of Spain to fund his journey across the Atlantic Ocean was because he was royalty himself.
For some reason he hid the true identity of his Polish biological father from most people during his lifetime, and history books have been none the wiser.
‘Another nutty conspiracy theory! That’s what I first supposed as I started to read... I now believe that Columbus is guilty of huge fraud carried out over two decades against his patrons,’ said US historian Prof. James T. McDonough.
Other historians first doubted Columbus’ Polish roots, but Rosa’s findings have been steadily gaining followers as the evidence comes to light.
‘This book will forever change the way we view our history,’ said Portuguese historian Prof. Jose Carlos Calazans. National Geographic is reportedly interested in making a documentary.
Until now, it was believed that Columbus, who was born in the Italian city of Genoa in 1451, was the son of Domenico Columbo, who was a weaver and had a cheese stall in a market in the city.
At the age of 22 Columbus started working for Genoese merchants trading throughout the Mediterranean, and three years later took part in a special trading expedition to northern Europe, docking at Bristol before continuing to Ireland and Iceland.
Throughout the 1480s, when Columbus was in his 30s, he traded along the African coast.
Historians say it is a myth that navigators thought the world was flat before Columbus sailed west – they had been using the stars at night as a primitive navigation system that assumed the earth was a sphere.
What sailors including Columbus didn’t know is how big the earth was, and how long it would take to sail round it.
When he persuaded financiers to back his voyage west in 1492, he had completely miscalculated the distances and thought that Asia would be where America is: he arrived in the Bahamas, thinking he was somewhere off the coast of China.
Columbus undertook three more return journeys across the Atlantic Ocean, each time hoping that he had found another part of Asia.
He set up Spanish colonies and became governor of the Caribbean island of Hispaniola, but was later put on trial in Spain for alleged abuse of power.
After Columbus’ death in 1506, European explorers continued to set up colonies and eventually empires in north and south America.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z16fTsbldO
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Operation Mincemeat: How a dead tramp fooled Hitlerrynner2 said:
By Megan Lane
BBC News Magazine
....
"But Mincemeat was exceptional as the biggest roll of the dice. It was an extraordinary operation in extraordinary times. Do it once and do it well was - and is - very much the ethos."
And the British had an ace up their sleeves, says Ben Macintyre, whose book Operation Mincemeat is now a BBC documentary.
"We were, thanks to the code-breakers at Bletchley Park, essentially reading the Germans' mail. We knew what Hitler was thinking on an hour-by-hour basis."
etc...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11887115
Operation Mincemeat is on BBC Two on Sunday 5 December at 2100 GMT
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Now on iPlayer:rynner2 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Mincemeat/
(And very good too. Strong characters and grim humour.)
Anome
Bibliomancer
- Joined
- May 23, 2002
- Messages
- 5,528
- Location
- Left, and to the Back
The book (by Ben MacIntyre) is really good. In many ways, it's surprising it worked at all. Thanks to some wishful thinking on the part of certain SS officers, and seemingly wilful misdirection by Hitler's favourite intelligence analyst, they got away with a massive gamble.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Not exactly a rewriting of history, but a possible footnote:
Is this woman Winston Churchill's illegitimate grand-daughter?
Secret adoption in the US at the centre of allegations over a very British cover-up
By Guy Adams in Los Angeles
Sunday, 12 December 2010
It wouldn't be their finest hour, but it might add an intriguing chapter to the history of perhaps the greatest British dynasty of the 20th century. A middle-aged woman from the American Midwest claimed this week to be Winston Churchill's illegitimate grand-daughter.
Rhonda Noonan, a 54-year-old inhabitant of Tulsa, Oklahoma, has spent 30 years trying to track down parents who gave her up for adoption as a newborn. Her conclusion: that she was fathered by our wartime Prime Minister's only son, Randolph.
The allegation divides historians who have examined Ms Noonan's claims. Some believe that it has the ring of truth. Others caution that the evidence is at best circumstantial.
Both groups agree that the only way to confirm or deny her genealogy is via a DNA test. That move is currently being blocked by the Churchill family. They will not co-operate with Ms Noonan.
She recently enlisted the services of a Hollywood PR man, Michael Sands, who worked with Randolph Churchill's late daughter, Arabella. He hopes that publicity will force the Churchill family's hand. If not, then Ms Noonan is at work on a memoir.
"I have spent half my life researching this, so I don't have any doubt about who I am," she told The Independent on Sunday. "It's an epic story. But of course I know that it will take a lot for most people to believe it. That's why I want this DNA test."
Ms Noonan's tale begins when she decided to track down the parents who had given her up for adoption in 1956. After a decade spent sparring with the state's Department of Human Services she won a court order in 1990 forcing them to give her a copy of her birth certificate.
From this, she traced her biological mother, Irene Pruitt-Gaffard, who by then was 76 and lived in the nearby city of Purcell. But the elderly lady refused to identify Ms Noonan's father, or discuss the circumstances under which she was conceived.
Then Ms Noonan accessed the original case notes from her adoption file, which mentioned her father had been British, and contained handwritten addendums suggesting that he was well connected and that his identity had therefore been hushed up.
About 10 years ago, Ms Noonan called former employees of the state's adoption agency hoping for more information and received an anonymous tip identifying her father as Randolph Churchill. "It explained so much about me and the way I am. I look just like Randolph Churchill. I cock my left eyebrow just like he did."
The eminent Englishman, had visited Tulsa around the time Ms Noonan was conceived. A correspondent for The Times, he was covering the Democratic nomination in the presidential race.
During the trip, Ms Noonan discovered, Churchill spent several nights at the officers' bar at Tinker Airforce Base. She believes he met Irene Pruitt-Gaffard there, and a romance ensued.
Though no documents back up her theory, she has a statement signed by Polly Hunt, a now-deceased employee of the state adoption agency. She claims to have been involved in the adoption and the cover-up of her father's identity.
Members of the Churchill family have been contacted by Ms Noonan but none has replied. If Randolph was her father, her closest relations would be the four offspring of his son Winston, the late Tory MP, or Arabella's two children.
The only relative to respond to inquiries this week was the author and journalist Celia Sandys, the daughter of Randolph's elder sister Diana, who would be Ms Noonan's cousin. "I am aware of this," she said. "But I have no wish to comment."
That leaves expert historians. Winston Churchill's biographer, Professor John Charmley, the head of history at the University of East Anglia, believes there is "nothing inherently impossible" about Ms Noonan's story.
"Randolph was in the US at the time, and he was quite capable of a one-night stand ... [he] was a womaniser." Regarding Ms Noonan's appearance, Professor Charmley added: "There's a resemblance, and if one looks at older photos of Randolph, a definite one."
Another Churchill scholar, Richard Toye at the University of Exeter, said he was "highly sceptical". "Without a DNA test, her story will convince no one, except a Hollywood agent."
The person who could have unlocked the mystery is now uncontactable. Irene Pruitt-Gaffard, who changed her name to Pat Nail, died on Friday, in Purcell. She was 96.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 58112.html
Is this woman Winston Churchill's illegitimate grand-daughter?
Secret adoption in the US at the centre of allegations over a very British cover-up
By Guy Adams in Los Angeles
Sunday, 12 December 2010
It wouldn't be their finest hour, but it might add an intriguing chapter to the history of perhaps the greatest British dynasty of the 20th century. A middle-aged woman from the American Midwest claimed this week to be Winston Churchill's illegitimate grand-daughter.
Rhonda Noonan, a 54-year-old inhabitant of Tulsa, Oklahoma, has spent 30 years trying to track down parents who gave her up for adoption as a newborn. Her conclusion: that she was fathered by our wartime Prime Minister's only son, Randolph.
The allegation divides historians who have examined Ms Noonan's claims. Some believe that it has the ring of truth. Others caution that the evidence is at best circumstantial.
Both groups agree that the only way to confirm or deny her genealogy is via a DNA test. That move is currently being blocked by the Churchill family. They will not co-operate with Ms Noonan.
She recently enlisted the services of a Hollywood PR man, Michael Sands, who worked with Randolph Churchill's late daughter, Arabella. He hopes that publicity will force the Churchill family's hand. If not, then Ms Noonan is at work on a memoir.
"I have spent half my life researching this, so I don't have any doubt about who I am," she told The Independent on Sunday. "It's an epic story. But of course I know that it will take a lot for most people to believe it. That's why I want this DNA test."
Ms Noonan's tale begins when she decided to track down the parents who had given her up for adoption in 1956. After a decade spent sparring with the state's Department of Human Services she won a court order in 1990 forcing them to give her a copy of her birth certificate.
From this, she traced her biological mother, Irene Pruitt-Gaffard, who by then was 76 and lived in the nearby city of Purcell. But the elderly lady refused to identify Ms Noonan's father, or discuss the circumstances under which she was conceived.
Then Ms Noonan accessed the original case notes from her adoption file, which mentioned her father had been British, and contained handwritten addendums suggesting that he was well connected and that his identity had therefore been hushed up.
About 10 years ago, Ms Noonan called former employees of the state's adoption agency hoping for more information and received an anonymous tip identifying her father as Randolph Churchill. "It explained so much about me and the way I am. I look just like Randolph Churchill. I cock my left eyebrow just like he did."
The eminent Englishman, had visited Tulsa around the time Ms Noonan was conceived. A correspondent for The Times, he was covering the Democratic nomination in the presidential race.
During the trip, Ms Noonan discovered, Churchill spent several nights at the officers' bar at Tinker Airforce Base. She believes he met Irene Pruitt-Gaffard there, and a romance ensued.
Though no documents back up her theory, she has a statement signed by Polly Hunt, a now-deceased employee of the state adoption agency. She claims to have been involved in the adoption and the cover-up of her father's identity.
Members of the Churchill family have been contacted by Ms Noonan but none has replied. If Randolph was her father, her closest relations would be the four offspring of his son Winston, the late Tory MP, or Arabella's two children.
The only relative to respond to inquiries this week was the author and journalist Celia Sandys, the daughter of Randolph's elder sister Diana, who would be Ms Noonan's cousin. "I am aware of this," she said. "But I have no wish to comment."
That leaves expert historians. Winston Churchill's biographer, Professor John Charmley, the head of history at the University of East Anglia, believes there is "nothing inherently impossible" about Ms Noonan's story.
"Randolph was in the US at the time, and he was quite capable of a one-night stand ... [he] was a womaniser." Regarding Ms Noonan's appearance, Professor Charmley added: "There's a resemblance, and if one looks at older photos of Randolph, a definite one."
Another Churchill scholar, Richard Toye at the University of Exeter, said he was "highly sceptical". "Without a DNA test, her story will convince no one, except a Hollywood agent."
The person who could have unlocked the mystery is now uncontactable. Irene Pruitt-Gaffard, who changed her name to Pat Nail, died on Friday, in Purcell. She was 96.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 58112.html
ramonmercado
CyberPunk
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2003
- Messages
- 58,327
- Location
- Eblana
titch
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 3,508
Mmmm dunno how much of the Halifax story is true,he didn't put himself forward because he thought the next prime minister would have to make a deal with hitler,that would make them really unpopular,then Halifax would step in,there may also have been the fact of it being difficult to become prime minister when in the house of lords, although i may have imagined the last bit. :?
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Isambard Kingdom Brunel did not design Clifton Suspension Bridge, says historian
The reputation of Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been questioned by new historical analysis which suggests many of his achievements have been exaggerated.
By Jasper Copping 8:15AM GMT 16 Jan 2011
He is one of the most celebrated Britons, whose engineering feats are said to have revolutionised the world.
But while Isambard Kingdom Brunel is credited with creating some of the marvels of the Victorian age, controversial new research suggests that his achievements may have been exaggerated.
The new analysis claims that his work was littered with errors and miscalculations, and that much of it was carried out by others.
It argues that Brunel's involvement in several of his most celebrated projects has been vastly overstated while one – the Clifton Suspension Bridge, in Bristol – is not his work at all.
Adrian Vaughan, an historian and biographer of the engineer, has made the claims after studying previously-unpublished writings of Brunel, as well as engineering drawings of the period.
"People need to have another look at Brunel and be more objective," he said. "The idolatry is not justified – it is shorthand, convenient history."
Mr Vaughan argues that Brunel's reputation today stems from "heroic myths" promoted in a 1950s biography by Lionel Thomas Caswall Rolt, which he claims contained factual errors which glossed over the engineer's shortcomings and the contribution of others.
He says modern commentators and television historians have perpetuated this view.
In a BBC television series to find the "Greatest Briton" of all time, Brunel – advocated by Jeremy Clarkson, the Top Gear presenter – came second in a public poll, with only Winston Churchill above him.
Yet Mr Vaughan's analysis of Brunel's diaries and letters at the National Archives, at Kew, and at Bristol University, has uncovered several occasions where the engineer has credited work previously believed to have been his, to others – including the route of the Great Western Railway from Reading into London.
Mr Vaughan said the biggest myth surrounding Brunel was that he had designed the Clifton Suspension Bridge.
The structure opened in 1864, five years after Brunel's death. But the engineer has always been credited with creating it, including on a plaque on the structure itself which says: "This bridge was designed in 1830 by Isambard Kingdom Brunel".
In April 2006, the bridge was the main focus for events celebrating the 200th anniversary of Brunel's birth.
But Mr Vaughan said: "That plaque is not true. It cannot be true. Demonstrably, the bridge is not Brunel's design. The bridge is his memorial but that is all."
In fact, Mr Vaughan said, the eventual bridge design was fundamentally different from Brunel's and was the work of William Barlow and Sir John Hawkshaw.
While Brunel's design had two suspension chains supporting it, the final design had three, with a third more "hangers" – the bard[?] from the chains down to the road.
It also had an entirely different system of attaching the "hangers" to the chains, to correct the twisting effect that Brunel's system would have had on the chains.
The method of stiffening under the road was also entirely new. While Brunel had designed a system of wooden struts, these were not considered sufficient so were replaced with riveted, wrought iron, lattice work girders.
Barlow and Hawkshaw also made the roadside railings an integral part of the structure, carrying out the function of a girder above the road. Under Brunel's design the railings performed no structural role.
"These are not cosmetic alterations or modifications. It is fundamentally a new design," Mr Vaughan said.
According to the historia, Brunel's role in the construction of the ships SS Great Britain and SS Great Eastern has also been embellished, as has his contribution to the construction of the Thames Tunnel between Rotherhithe and Limehouse – now part of the East London Overground railway system.
etc...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... orian.html
The reputation of Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been questioned by new historical analysis which suggests many of his achievements have been exaggerated.
By Jasper Copping 8:15AM GMT 16 Jan 2011
He is one of the most celebrated Britons, whose engineering feats are said to have revolutionised the world.
But while Isambard Kingdom Brunel is credited with creating some of the marvels of the Victorian age, controversial new research suggests that his achievements may have been exaggerated.
The new analysis claims that his work was littered with errors and miscalculations, and that much of it was carried out by others.
It argues that Brunel's involvement in several of his most celebrated projects has been vastly overstated while one – the Clifton Suspension Bridge, in Bristol – is not his work at all.
Adrian Vaughan, an historian and biographer of the engineer, has made the claims after studying previously-unpublished writings of Brunel, as well as engineering drawings of the period.
"People need to have another look at Brunel and be more objective," he said. "The idolatry is not justified – it is shorthand, convenient history."
Mr Vaughan argues that Brunel's reputation today stems from "heroic myths" promoted in a 1950s biography by Lionel Thomas Caswall Rolt, which he claims contained factual errors which glossed over the engineer's shortcomings and the contribution of others.
He says modern commentators and television historians have perpetuated this view.
In a BBC television series to find the "Greatest Briton" of all time, Brunel – advocated by Jeremy Clarkson, the Top Gear presenter – came second in a public poll, with only Winston Churchill above him.
Yet Mr Vaughan's analysis of Brunel's diaries and letters at the National Archives, at Kew, and at Bristol University, has uncovered several occasions where the engineer has credited work previously believed to have been his, to others – including the route of the Great Western Railway from Reading into London.
Mr Vaughan said the biggest myth surrounding Brunel was that he had designed the Clifton Suspension Bridge.
The structure opened in 1864, five years after Brunel's death. But the engineer has always been credited with creating it, including on a plaque on the structure itself which says: "This bridge was designed in 1830 by Isambard Kingdom Brunel".
In April 2006, the bridge was the main focus for events celebrating the 200th anniversary of Brunel's birth.
But Mr Vaughan said: "That plaque is not true. It cannot be true. Demonstrably, the bridge is not Brunel's design. The bridge is his memorial but that is all."
In fact, Mr Vaughan said, the eventual bridge design was fundamentally different from Brunel's and was the work of William Barlow and Sir John Hawkshaw.
While Brunel's design had two suspension chains supporting it, the final design had three, with a third more "hangers" – the bard[?] from the chains down to the road.
It also had an entirely different system of attaching the "hangers" to the chains, to correct the twisting effect that Brunel's system would have had on the chains.
The method of stiffening under the road was also entirely new. While Brunel had designed a system of wooden struts, these were not considered sufficient so were replaced with riveted, wrought iron, lattice work girders.
Barlow and Hawkshaw also made the roadside railings an integral part of the structure, carrying out the function of a girder above the road. Under Brunel's design the railings performed no structural role.
"These are not cosmetic alterations or modifications. It is fundamentally a new design," Mr Vaughan said.
According to the historia, Brunel's role in the construction of the ships SS Great Britain and SS Great Eastern has also been embellished, as has his contribution to the construction of the Thames Tunnel between Rotherhithe and Limehouse – now part of the East London Overground railway system.
etc...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... orian.html
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2003
- Messages
- 672
rynner2 said:
My initial response was So? I look a lot like Randoplh Churchill (unfortunately), and I cock my eyebrow in the same way. Doesn't mean anything. and then realised the sheer stupidity of that point.
Christ, maybe I should get some sleep.
JamesWhitehead
Piffle Prospector
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2001
- Messages
- 14,220
That shocking letter in full.
Dear Issy,
This is farewell. Your two hangers are inadequate now I have found a man who can give me three!
Your wooden strut left a great deal to be desired as a method of stiffening - I also find I need more chains than you can supply.
Your name, however, will be displayed on my stones for ever.
Eternally,
Clifton
:shock:
Dear Issy,
This is farewell. Your two hangers are inadequate now I have found a man who can give me three!
Your wooden strut left a great deal to be desired as a method of stiffening - I also find I need more chains than you can supply.
Your name, however, will be displayed on my stones for ever.
Eternally,
Clifton
:shock: