Owzabout That Then? The Jimmy Savile Revelations & Aftermath

[OneWingedBird]

Perhaps, as some people have claimed already, this is just another distraction from the current political/economic mess.

 

[GNC]

Or to be more faithful to the spirit of the subforum, orchestrated by the newspapers and police to distract from their far more provable lawbreaking and corruption.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I'm very upset by this and I simply don't think I can believe a word of it.
AFAIK, only one complaint was made against him - that could be someone who (for reasons best known to themselves) wishes to bring him down.

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Kondoru]

Perhaps he never showed their fave cartoon on his Cartoon Time?

Also he, in the face of all that is decent, insists on being Australian.

 

[Anome]

Despite not having lived here for 40 years or something.

I really don't quite know what to make of it. If he did do anything, then he should be punished for it. Maybe that's part of what's behind it, Saville got away with it, so let's find someone to string up as an example.

To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Rolf is guilty, but I don't know the details of what's going on, so can't really speculate. Maybe it was a misunderstanding, maybe it's someone with some other axe to grind, or maybe it's all true.

Interesting that there haven't been any allegations in the media about him here, though. Only reports about the stuff in the UK.

 

[garrick92]

Worth observing that RH is not (AFAICS) being accused of kiddy-diddling.

 

[Quake42]

Part of the problem I think is the contemporary police practice of arresting people and then bailing them for extended periods of time. In the past people may have been questioned but an actual arrest tended to signal charges were imminent. It can't be right to have people left in limbo on police bail for months.

 

[WhistlingJack]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Something which, from the beginning of this thread, I've said of course also applies to Savile.

 

[Quake42]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Something which, from the beginning of this thread, I've said of course also applies to Savile.

Except that Savile himself admitted in his autobiography that he had a penchant for young girls.

That doesn't mean that every single allegation against him is true of course, but I think there is sufficient evidence to conclude he was a pretty unsavoury individual.

 

[smokehead]

There is a difference between persistent predatory paedophilia and a sexual encounter with someone under the age of consent.
Members of rock groups would be technically guilty of a sexual offence in the second instance,I'm pretty sure they don't ask to see the birth certificates of groupies when they are on tour.
If both are reported, do,or should the police distiinguish between the two?
Are these 'arrests' then because the police are acting on 20 year old reports of under age sex with some celebrity or other,perhaps prompted by the Saville hubbub,or because of more sinister behaviour?

 

[Quake42]

Are these 'arrests' then because the police are acting on 20 year old reports of under age sex with some celebrity or other,perhaps prompted by the Saville hubbub,or because of more sinister behaviour?

Well, some of the arrests (Jim Davidson IIRC) don't involve such claims at all - the complaint in that case relates to alleged behaviour many years ago when both Davidson and the complainant were in their 20s. Given that I'm not sure whether they should be lumped in with the Savile cases at all.

 

[Cochise]

Since this is the conspiracy section...

_If_ you wanted to deflect attention away from any real names in Government who were in any way involved in the JS or any related care homes type affairs, then this rendering of the public in effect insensitive to allegations of sexual misconduct in the distant past would seem very effective.

Certainly all pretence of finding out who if anyone aided and abetted JS seems to have been quietly dropped, even though the head of the investigation said, IIRC, that there was 'no doubt' that crimes had been committed.

All very unsatisfactory whichever your stance is on the veracity of the claims.

 

[Quake42]

_If_ you wanted to deflect attention away from any real names in Government who were in any way involved in the JS or any related care homes type affairs, then this rendering of the public in effect insensitive to allegations of sexual misconduct in the distant past would seem very effective.

Yes - if the rumours about JS were really as prevalent as we're told then it seems astonishing that he was so close to Margaret Thatcher, for example (spending every Christmas with her). MI5 would have been all over that surely?

 

[Cherrybomb]

I did think that now Thatcher is dead, would we find out more about her relationship with JS?

Also, AFAIK, Rolf hasn't commented on his arrest. Wouldn't you want to put your side of the story out there?

 

[Quake42]

Also, AFAIK, Rolf hasn't commented on his arrest. Wouldn't you want to put your side of the story out there?

There was an interview with his wife in the Mirror yesterday. Reading between the lines Rolf himself is quite unwell.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Also, AFAIK, Rolf hasn't commented on his arrest. Wouldn't you want to put your side of the story out there?

There was an interview with his wife in the Mirror yesterday. Reading between the lines Rolf himself is quite unwell.

oh dear

 

[Mythopoeika]

Also, AFAIK, Rolf hasn't commented on his arrest. Wouldn't you want to put your side of the story out there?

There was an interview with his wife in the Mirror yesterday. Reading between the lines Rolf himself is quite unwell.

I think this whole thing may have pushed him over the edge into depression. He does have prior history of depression. Physically, he's probably OK.

The huge majority of comments left on Rolf's Facebook page are positive. I do hope he can recover from this.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Also, AFAIK, Rolf hasn't commented on his arrest. Wouldn't you want to put your side of the story out there?

There was an interview with his wife in the Mirror yesterday. Reading between the lines Rolf himself is quite unwell.

I think this whole thing may have pushed him over the edge into depression. He does have prior history of depression. Physically, he's probably OK.

The huge majority of comments left on Rolf's Facebook page are positive. I do hope he can recover from this.

If he is innocent. We just don't know or not at this point. FWIW I hope he is innocent and that he can recover.

 

[Yithian]

If he is innocent. We just don't know or not at this point.

There's this funny old tradition of which you may have heard: something about presuming innocence until guilt is proved.

 

[Cherrybomb]

If he is innocent. We just don't know or not at this point.

There's this funny old tradition of which you may have heard: something about presuming innocence until guilt is proved.

I know, I know, I'm just playing Devils avocado

 

[garrick92]

Threadstarter writes:

Now that all the fuss over Savile himself has died down a bit...

I started this (stupidly-titled) thread in 'conspiracy' because I felt sure that sooner or later allegations of a paedo ring centred around Savile would arise.

I am saddened/glad to report that this doesn't seem to have happened.

The conspiracy-mongering seems to have moved away from Savile and on to things like the Elm Guest House, which I didn't expect.

So, conspiracy prediction failure from me.

 

[escargot]

You're looking in the wrong place, Mate. On the conspiracy boards which I read, Savile and others are seen as prime procurers for high-up paedophiles in an ongoing, well-organised criminal process.

Here's a simplified version, italicised to emphasise that it is a summary of what I've read on t'conspiracy boards and NOT something out of my own head:

Savile himself got away with it all his life because of his Establishment and royal connections.
There was no point in complaining about him when he was alive because, as we now know, reports to the police were dismissed, disregarded or 'lost'. The same happened to complaints about politicians and other powerful men.

So why's it all coming out now, I hear you ask? Because after Savile's death, when the truth about him finally came out, the public were so shocked that The Powers That Be had to be seen to be doing something about it.

The action TPTB took was to placate the public by throwing a few famous but politically minor paedos to the lions. Stuart Hall is one. He was a big name in local TV back in the day and like Savile, had the use of a room at the BBC for 'entertaining' his young guests.


There's so much more, but you get the gist.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I don't know if this has already been posted, but Jimmy Tarbuck:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/National-News/Jimmy-Tarbuck-in-child-sex-arrest-2-7163529.xnf

 

[Quake42]

On the conspiracy boards which I read, Savile and others are seen as prime procurers for high-up paedophiles in an ongoing, well-organised criminal process.

I blame the lizards.

Seriously, I would take the conspiracy boards you're so fond of with a pinch of salt. There's a lot of pretty nasty homophobic and anti-semitic stuff not that far under the surface and rather little in terms of evidence.

 

[Yithian]

So, out of interest, was anyone arrested and prosecuted for rape or child molestation during the 60s or 70s or was it pretty much legal back then? It's like the police have suddenly stumbled upon a vast filimg cabinet full of cases they forgot to investigate.

Can these really all be cases that went unreported for decades?


Jimmy Tarbuck, by the way - Bingo anyone?

 

[Quake42]

So, out of interest, was anyone arrested and prosecuted for rape or child molestation during the 60s or 70s or was it pretty much legal back then?

I think rape victims were treated pretty badly, particularly if the alleged crime was at the "date rape" rather than the "masked stranger jumping out of bushes" end of the spectrum. So I guess many were simply not reported.

The apparent ignoring of child abuse seems more surprising, but it was a time where children were routinely not believed if they contradicted adults. I also expect that where something untoward was suspected children would simply be told to avoid the creepy weirdo/dirty old man. I don't think the immediate reaction would have been to contact the police.

It's like the police have suddenly stumbled upon a vast filimg cabinet full of cases they forgot to investigate.

Can these really all be cases that went unreported for decades?

Well, as people have commented on the other threads, the publicity given to the celeb arrests will not doubt have encouraged victims to come forward. No doubt it will also have encouraged some false accusations. The challenge is how to tell one from the other.

 

[Cochise]

We certainly were told to avoid one particular old man in our street (in the early 60's) but of course I have no idea if he had actually done anything or if it was just gossip.

Look, this isn't just 'all coming out'. People have been suspicious of - or gossiping about - JS at least way back in the 70's. But clearly complaints were not taken seriously, and that is what really should be investigated.

Also, you have to consider peer group stuff. I'm not suggesting that JS's example would turn anyone into an offender, but if you were that way inclined and could see him clearly getting away with it, then wouldn't that lead other potential offenders to conclude they could too? Not that that should be seen as a defence, but surely the people who would go along with such tolerance are just as culpable if they were in positions of responsibility?

I remain convinced there is something very nasty behind all this, but I wouldn't like to say exactly what - except it probably doesn't involve lizards.

 

[Spookdaddy]

So, out of interest, was anyone arrested and prosecuted for rape or child molestation during the 60s or 70s or was it pretty much legal back then?

I think rape victims were treated pretty badly, particularly if the alleged crime was at the "date rape" rather than the "masked stranger jumping out of bushes" end of the spectrum. So I guess many were simply not reported.

The apparent ignoring of child abuse seems more surprising, but it was a time where children were routinely not believed if they contradicted adults. I also expect that where something untoward was suspected children would simply be told to avoid the creepy weirdo/dirty old man. I don't think the immediate reaction would have been to contact the police...

Agreed - I can't help thinking that there's an element of the past is a foreign country: they do things differently there, going on.

If you want a very blunt illustration take Ronald Castree, who was convicted in 2007 of the murder of Lesley Molseed - 32 years after the crime was committed and after one of the worst miscarriages of justice in recent history.

Castree had been convicted, in 1976, of gross indecency and indecent assault against a 9 year old girl. He was caught, arrested and tried, the childs testimony was believed - there was no cover-up.

His punishment? A £25.00 fine!

 

[Quake42]

His punishment? A £25.00 fine!

See also the Wests, who were convicted of a serious and violent sexual assault in the 70s and received a paltry fine, apparently on the grounds that they were a respectable married couple who had clearly been led astray by some floozy.

 

[Cochise]

His punishment? A £25.00 fine!

See also the Wests, who were convicted of a serious and violent sexual assault in the 70s and received a paltry fine, apparently on the grounds that they were a respectable married couple who had clearly been led astray by some floozy.

Amazing. These things I did not know. West would already have killed at least twice by then.