Satanic Abuse Rumbles On?

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
26,571
Likes
10,865
Points
284
Just read the whole of this thread, and nobody mentions the 1980 book that started the SRA ball rolling:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

I read about it in Grady Hendrix's Paperbacks from Hell book, which is an overview of the horror paperbacks boom of the 1970s and 80s. Michelle Remembers was very much in that lurid tradition, breathlessly detailing an 81 day ordeal for 5 year old Michelle Smith which was recovered in therapy when she was an adult (with a shrink she was having an affair with, it turned out). The trouble was, as the book climbed the bestseller lists, none of it was true.

But thanks to the popularity of the horror genre stamped on the pop culture landscape, with horror movies blamed for all sorts of psychological problems despite no evidence for it (see the UK's video nasties scare), there were plenty of religious types who adapted the shocking setpieces of these fictions to what they wanted to believe was real life. Again, no evidence whatsoever. It was like the fundamentalists needed their horror stories too, but they had to be tailored to their beliefs.

And all because one shrink saw the success of The Amityville Horror and thought, hmm, I could make a lot of money out of this (and did).

So... anyone read Michelle Remembers?
 

Jim

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
863
Likes
826
Points
94
Location
NYS, USA
Just read the whole of this thread, and nobody mentions the 1980 book that started the SRA ball rolling:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

I read about it in Grady Hendrix's Paperbacks from Hell book, which is an overview of the horror paperbacks boom of the 1970s and 80s. Michelle Remembers was very much in that lurid tradition, breathlessly detailing an 81 day ordeal for 5 year old Michelle Smith which was recovered in therapy when she was an adult (with a shrink she was having an affair with, it turned out). The trouble was, as the book climbed the bestseller lists, none of it was true.

But thanks to the popularity of the horror genre stamped on the pop culture landscape, with horror movies blamed for all sorts of psychological problems despite no evidence for it (see the UK's video nasties scare), there were plenty of religious types who adapted the shocking setpieces of these fictions to what they wanted to believe was real life. Again, no evidence whatsoever. It was like the fundamentalists needed their horror stories too, but they had to be tailored to their beliefs.

And all because one shrink saw the success of The Amityville Horror and thought, hmm, I could make a lot of money out of this (and did).

So... anyone read Michelle Remembers?
People can be so bloody gullible. Just tell them it's nonfiction and away they go. "Not to get too off track" but It often seems that any fanatical (religious or political) group will believe just about anything at times, the buggers.
 

James_H

And I like to roam the land
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
6,290
Likes
3,278
Points
259
In terms of SRA 'rumbling on', I started a thread about Teal Swan, Youtube guru – a key part of her backstory is the satanic ritual abuse she allegedly endured as a child. Her followers believe her story, of course. Repressed memories and SRA may be debunked for us, but there's going to be a lot of people out there who see no reason to doubt it.
 

OneWingedBird

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
15,512
Likes
6,325
Points
284
In terms of SRA 'rumbling on', I started a thread about Teal Swan, Youtube guru – a key part of her backstory is the satanic ritual abuse she allegedly endured as a child. Her followers believe her story, of course. Repressed memories and SRA may be debunked for us, but there's going to be a lot of people out there who see no reason to doubt it.
I think there's an awful lot more going on right now than we hear about.

Something has happened with the reporting of this sort of thing over the last few years, there's very little and when it does appear there's a huge relectance to name those responsible in the way that would have happened in the 90s. makes me think there was some sort of court case or something that's made the media wary.
 

Coal

Polymath Renaissance Man, Italian Wiccan Anarchist
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
8,769
Likes
10,503
Points
279
Repressed memories and SRA may be debunked for us, but there's going to be a lot of people out there who see no reason to doubt it.
A good and quick way to change peoples idea on this is to suggest that no-one incarcerated in Auschwitz repressed their memories (I take no credit for that I read it in a journal article somewhere).
 

James_H

And I like to roam the land
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
6,290
Likes
3,278
Points
259
A good and quick way to change peoples idea on this is to suggest that no-one incarcerated in Auschwitz repressed their memories (I take no credit for that I read it in a journal article somewhere).
Is that the case though?

Misha…looks helplessly at me and admits hesitantly that the period in the camps is wiped out from his brain….With each question regarding the period between December 12, 1942 till May 7, 1945, he admits while feeling embarrassed that he cannot remember anything
 

Coal

Polymath Renaissance Man, Italian Wiccan Anarchist
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
8,769
Likes
10,503
Points
279
Fascinating, thank you for that, I stand, in part, corrected, the studies shown note that this is a relatively rare thing, even so.

I'd say there is a difference between evaluating a recovered memory for an event which is known and documented, i.e. the 'ground truth' is known, and the inadvertent generation of false memories in a subject for whom the 'ground truth' is not known - there are some interesting studies to show just how easily this can be done.

I worry that there is now a body of opinion on the subject and there is not enough material on the corroboration between memories and events to pin down the existence of, and differentiation between, genuinely recovered memories and 'false' memories.

In any event, those abusers who use of the defence of 'false memories' to cover up or evade cases of real abuse - this is so despicable if defies comment. But there are always people like that and they will game the system, always.

In any event, guilt still needs to be proved and the trope, of late, of "guilt is assumed in the accusation" is something we all need to be very wary of.
 

James_H

And I like to roam the land
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
6,290
Likes
3,278
Points
259
Fascinating, thank you for that, I stand, in part, corrected, the studies shown note that this is a relatively rare thing, even so.

I'd say there is a difference between evaluating a recovered memory for an event which is known and documented, i.e. the 'ground truth' is known, and the inadvertent generation of false memories in a subject for whom the 'ground truth' is not known - there are some interesting studies to show just how easily this can be done.

I worry that there is now a body of opinion on the subject and there is not enough material on the corroboration between memories and events to pin down the existence of, and differentiation between, genuinely recovered memories and 'false' memories.

In any event, those abusers who use of the defence of 'false memories' to cover up or evade cases of real abuse - this is so despicable if defies comment. But there are always people like that and they will game the system, always.

In any event, guilt still needs to be proved and the trope, of late, of "guilt is assumed in the accusation" is something we all need to be very wary of.
It seems like that department at brown have an agenda to prove the validity of repressed memories, and I'd guess it's still a controversial subject. It would also depend very much on the age of the child - I remember very little from my younger childhood, and I didn't have anything drastically traumatic happen to me.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,442
Likes
1,902
Points
154
Yeah, sad business. The whole 'repressed memory' thing is mostly debunked.
Actually people can well have "repressed memories", but the danger is that a hypnotherapist can ask leading questions that can make people imagine traumatic events. There is a similar problem with police and lawyers asking witnesses leading questions that cause them to completely misremember events. In the case of the Satanic Panic, a series of psychologists deliberately used their knowledge of hypnosis to prey upon the prejudices of some very insular, parochial, and superstitiously fundamentalist religious people in the USA's hinterlands. Many of them to this day still insist that their recovered memories are real, and there is genuine emotion at stake, for admitting it is bullshit means they're rubes and their faith affirming clash with the forces of Darkness is a nonsense. This is how the best con-artists really "take" people. Con artists make the victim think they the victim are to blame, and make the victim hide the truth of events due to shame about the victim's involvement, to the point where the victim will often defend the con artist rather than admit their own foolishness. Sickening really.

My advice to anyone who gets taken in by a con artist is that it is better to admit your mistake and go to the Fraud Squad. Even if you have done something criminal, the Fraud Squad will normally take your side, because they know how con artists entrap people.
 

OneWingedBird

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
15,512
Likes
6,325
Points
284
can anyone recommend a good primer on RSA?
I'm hopelessly late replying to this, the definitive book on SRA in the UK is probably Speak of the Devil


Allegations of satanic child abuse became widespread in North America in the 1980s. Shortly afterwards, there were similar reports in Britain of sexual abuse, torture and murder, associated with worship of the Devil. Professor Jean La Fontaine, a senior British anthropologist, conducted a two year research project into these allegations, which found that they were without foundation. Her detailed analysis of a number of specific cases, and an extensive review of the literature, revealed no evidence of devil-worship. She concludes that the child witnesses come to believe that they are describing what actually happened to them, but that adults are manipulating the accusations. She draws parallels with classic instances of witchcraft accusations and witch-hunts in sixteenth and seventeenth-century Europe, and shows that beneath the hysteria there is a social movement, which is fostered by a climate of social and economic insecurity. Persuasively argued, this is an authoritative and scholarly account of an emotive issue.
It's the only source I've seen that addresses that SRA was driven by middle class social workers, doctors and 'therapists' onto working class kids and how they felt justified in doing that because their target's families didn't meet their quaint criteria of the 'honest poor'.

Also notable that the foster carers were demanding more money for kids they reckoned had been SRA'ed.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,442
Likes
1,902
Points
154
I'm hopelessly late replying to this, the definitive book on SRA in the UK is probably Speak of the Devil
It's the only source I've seen that addresses that SRA was driven by middle class social workers, doctors and 'therapists' onto working class kids and how they felt justified in doing that because their target's families didn't meet their quaint criteria of the 'honest poor'.
Also notable that the foster carers were demanding more money for kids they reckoned had been SRA'ed.
I find it amusing that the worst case of Satanic Abuse I am aware of is when one of my buddies who is a self declared satanist insisted I come to an experimental jazz gig and I hated it. After which I abused him, because I told him prior that I didn't like experimental jazz, but he said "this is different, you'll love it", but it wasn't and I didn't, and the only people enjoying the music were the musicians themselves.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,442
Likes
1,902
Points
154
Thank you so much for your support. It means a lot to me. It was years ago now, and little by little, you can walk back from even abuse on that scale. I joined an experimental jazz survivor's group, and that helped. I know you have all suffered similar abuse, and when we share the stories, we all become stronger together. It's really touching. :tears:
 
Top