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The Abolition Of Cash

I don't think we will abolish cash, at least not for several generations. But as each generation comes along and uses cash for fewer things, cash will become rarer. After (say) four generations, most of the need for it will have gone. Just as, a few generations ago, it would have been unthinkable for snail mail post to have become less-used, because that's how everyone communicated. Now most things go by email with just the few, usually legal, documents having to exist as paper copies.

As each new generation comes along, things change.
 
maximus otter said:
Nitwits on the hills find navigation by mobile phone far more convenient than learning to use, and carrying, a map and compass. Then they lose signal, or the battery runs flat, or the mist rolls in…

Short-sightedly always taking the path of least resistance is not a good strategy.

maximus otter
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By that logic we should give up all modern day conveniences, I mean what are people going to cook on if they don't know how to cook on an open fire? And better keep a bale of hay in the boot of the car in case we need to return to horse to get us from A to B

There is always the risk of something happening to the modern infrastructure, but we are human beings we try and find the easier way of doing things and have done since we lived in caves
 
There's nothing wrong with following a convenient path - just as long as you know an alternative.
What is important is that you understand or appreciate that it is a convenient option and not the only one. Why make things hard for yourself?

In health and safety at work, we were always told when lifting heavy loads "If there's a barrow available - use it!" It's like saying "Nope - that's too easy! I'm going to take three trips with one heavy box, instead of one trip with three boxes!"
 
Stormkhan said:
There's nothing wrong with following a convenient path - just as long as you know an alternative.
What is important is that you understand or appreciate that it is a convenient option and not the only one. Why make things hard for yourself?

In health and safety at work, we were always told when lifting heavy loads "If there's a barrow available - use it!" It's like saying "Nope - that's too easy! I'm going to take three trips with one heavy box, instead of one trip with three boxes!"
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Cash could become obsolete in day to day life, but always with the proviso that it could be brought back, should the necessity arise.
 
catseye said:
Cash could become obsolete in day to day life, but always with the proviso that it could be brought back, should the necessity arise.
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It will always be there in the background no doubt, and I don't see it being abolished just not used as much
 
That's the thing. This will always remain do-able.
It's up to the shops to accept it or not. A place might accept Euro's only, pre-decimalisation currency, jellybeans if they wish.
The limiting factor is how that business turns the representative item into useable currency. After all, you can't pay your staff in jellybeans.
There are some events where organisers offer 'money cards'. At the start, the organisers turn your cash into a paper 'currency'. This then is accepted at the participating stalls, who will turn in that paper currency to the organisers who'll refund the actual money.
Even CAMRA beer festivals operate such a system. At the entrance, you buy a book of tickets. Amusement parks do it.
But all these systems rely on the shop keeper being able to fund their business in hard cash.
Ultimately cash is the most widely accepted promissory exchange system. :) All it needs is to make that coin transferrable.
 
RaM said:
Even st beggers are getting in on the act, not that I would put my card anywhere near one.
https://www.card-saver.co.uk/government-advises-all-homeless-people-to-be-given-card-readers/
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Interesting proposal there.
To use a card reader to accept payments, you need a bank account. To have a bank account, you need valid identity and a permanent address. So ... I wonder how the website "card-saver.co.uk" (completely independent and not interested body) has managed to persuade the government to go along with that absolute nonsense?
https://tenor.com/view/chewin-the-fat-smell-shite-nodding-aye-olive-actory-gif-15680122
 
Stormkhan said:
That's the thing. This will always remain do-able.
It's up to the shops to accept it or not. A place might accept Euro's only, pre-decimalisation currency, jellybeans if they wish.
The limiting factor is how that business turns the representative item into useable currency. After all, you can't pay your staff in jellybeans.
There are some events where organisers offer 'money cards'. At the start, the organisers turn your cash into a paper 'currency'. This then is accepted at the participating stalls, who will turn in that paper currency to the organisers who'll refund the actual money.
Even CAMRA beer festivals operate such a system. At the entrance, you buy a book of tickets. Amusement parks do it.
But all these systems rely on the shop keeper being able to fund their business in hard cash.
Ultimately cash is the most widely accepted promissory exchange system. :) All it needs is to make that coin transferrable.
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First thing that comes to mind. . . :)
https://www.lbbonline.com/news/cryp...ore-smarty-in-campaign-for-the-mobile-network
 
Robbrent said:
By that logic we should give up all modern day conveniences, I mean what are people going to cook on if they don't know how to cook on an open fire? And better keep a bale of hay in the boot of the car in case we need to return to horse to get us from A to B

There is always the risk of something happening to the modern infrastructure, but we are human beings we try and find the easier way of doing things and have done since we lived in caves
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Stormkhan said:
There's nothing wrong with following a convenient path - just as long as you know an alternative.
What is important is that you understand or appreciate that it is a convenient option and not the only one. Why make things hard for yourself?

In health and safety at work, we were always told when lifting heavy loads "If there's a barrow available - use it!" It's like saying "Nope - that's too easy! I'm going to take three trips with one heavy box, instead of one trip with three boxes!"
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Not wanting to divert too far OT, but without being a prepper or survivalist it's always worth knowing what to do if your usual mode for any of life's day-to-day functions goes tits-up. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst, maybe?

I'm lucky in that I live in a countryside village relatively well-served by roads and nearby rail but, I still know how to ride a bicycle even with my crappy disability. There is no mains gas, so I keep some camping-style alternatives to the electric cooker & microwave stashed away. I have an open fireplace and make sure every autumn we are well stocked with fuel & other bits. I occasionally cook on it to remind myself how. Candles, matches and other ways to make light. A solar/winding radio and more than one tin opener!

When the lockdowns occurred in 2020, my way of life really didn't change much. If we ran out of bog roll, that would've been OK as I've learned the Asian way of using water for toilet purposes, just in case, when living for short periods abroad there. If the water went off here at home then we have a rain-water butt (for our butts) and -at a pinch- if boiled well, for consumption.

In fact, it kind of felt that the rest of the country was finally getting into my world.
 
When there was speculation of national power cuts, I just got some fresh gas cannisters for my camping stove, and make sure I had charcoal* for my BBQ.
There's 'survivalist preppers' and there's campers. And there's those who are able to purchase from any local shop any shortfalls. Unless you're in deep wilderness, you don't have to struggle and 'rough it'. :)

* Yes, I know how to make it ... but convenience means I don't have to do it.
 
Stormkhan said:
That's the thing. This will always remain do-able.
It's up to the shops to accept it or not. A place might accept Euro's only, pre-decimalisation currency, jellybeans if they wish.
The limiting factor is how that business turns the representative item into useable currency. After all, you can't pay your staff in jellybeans.
There are some events where organisers offer 'money cards'. At the start, the organisers turn your cash into a paper 'currency'. This then is accepted at the participating stalls, who will turn in that paper currency to the organisers who'll refund the actual money.
Even CAMRA beer festivals operate such a system. At the entrance, you buy a book of tickets. Amusement parks do it.
But all these systems rely on the shop keeper being able to fund their business in hard cash.
Ultimately cash is the most widely accepted promissory exchange system. :) All it needs is to make that coin transferrable.
Click to expand...
A local festival a few years ago used to do this. Tokens, rather than cash for drinks and craft items, which was great, as a customer you'd already spent the money so you used up the tokens and probably drank rather more than you would have done. The problem came when it came to the organisers paying the stall holders back in cash for the tokens they'd taken, and there were a lot of delaying tactics involved. As far as I recall, some stall holders never got their money and the event, which had run happily for a few years, crashed completely.
 
catseye said:
A local festival a few years ago used to do this. Tokens, rather than cash for drinks and craft items, which was great, as a customer you'd already spent the money so you used up the tokens and probably drank rather more than you would have done. The problem came when it came to the organisers paying the stall holders back in cash for the tokens they'd taken, and there were a lot of delaying tactics involved. As far as I recall, some stall holders never got their money and the event, which had run happily for a few years, crashed completely.
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I went to a small festival a few years ago and the internet in the location was poor to non-existent, so the stall holders had to do cash only. Most people didn't bring cash...
 
True.
But the 'faff' as you put it protects your money from fraudsters. If you want to take out a couple of thou' in cash - for some reason - the bank is legally obliged to check that it's neither money laundering, your being the victim of a scam etc.
Personally, I'd never pay over £500 in cash to begin with. There's no reason to. 'Round our way', Monday is the day all the local pensioners roll up to the Post Office - we have no bank branches - to take out all their pensions in cash ... only to divvy it up and pay their bills at the same counter. Sure - there are plenty of folks who don't know how or don't want to pay online or by direct debit. But carrying a couple of hundred in cash makes them tasty targets for thieves and con artists.

Also, drawing out large sums from branches has always taken time. Before it was to ensure that there was enough in the branch vaults for the cashiers to use.
 
Stormkhan said:
True.
But the 'faff' as you put it protects your money from fraudsters. If you want to take out a couple of thou' in cash - for some reason - the bank is legally obliged to check that it's neither money laundering, your being the victim of a scam etc.
Personally, I'd never pay over £500 in cash to begin with. There's no reason to. 'Round our way', Monday is the day all the local pensioners roll up to the Post Office - we have no bank branches - to take out all their pensions in cash ... only to divvy it up and pay their bills at the same counter. Sure - there are plenty of folks who don't know how or don't want to pay online or by direct debit. But carrying a couple of hundred in cash makes them tasty targets for thieves and con artists.

Also, drawing out large sums from branches has always taken time. Before it was to ensure that there was enough in the branch vaults for the cashiers to use.
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MrsF's mother has this strange predilection for standing there with her purse held out in one hand for all to see while she does something else- like rummaging in her handbag.

I came across her doing this very thing last week while she was reading her statement she'd just got from the cash machine.
How she's never been mugged I'll never know.
 
Robbrent said:
By that logic we should give up all modern day conveniences, I mean what are people going to cook on if they don't know how to cook on an open fire? And better keep a bale of hay in the boot of the car in case we need to return to horse to get us from A to B

There is always the risk of something happening to the modern infrastructure, but we are human beings we try and find the easier way of doing things and have done since we lived in caves
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Just makes sense to have backups and know how to use them.

Living in rural areas as I have for the last 30 years you learn the lesson. Power can go off. Water can stop running. Roads can get flooded/blocked.

More relevant to this thread Internet connection can be lost - that happened in my current residence for nearly TWO WEEKS a few years ago - businesses further up the valley would have been stuffed if not for cash. It was down again earlier this year but that was only a matter of hours. I now have backup as long as I can get a phone signal. But businesses with card readers can't use that alternative, AFAIK.
 
Cochise said:
Just makes sense to have backups and know how to use them.

Living in rural areas as I have for the last 30 years you learn the lesson. Power can go off. Water can stop running. Roads can get flooded/blocked. Internet connection can be lost - that happened in my current residence for nearly TWO WEEKS a few years ago years ago - businesses further up the valley would have been stuffed if not for cash. It was down again earlier this year but that was only a matter of hours.
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To be honest I don't think cash is being abolished (well not officially) it's just being replaced with something more convenient in the event of an outage I am sure many businesses would take cash, but then again where would people get cash from, banks are closing and there are far fewer hole in the wall machines

Modern Civilization really hangs by a very thin thread and most people don't realise it, I have for years known this but I'm comfortable with it.
 
Robbrent said:
Modern Civilization really hangs by a very thin thread and most people don't realise it, I have for years known this but I'm comfortable with it.
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Yep me too, I wasnt so comfortable with it when my children were young but now they can fend for themselves and are reasonable practicle I'm less bothered. I'm no prepper but keep certain stocks and 'just in case' type stuff. I also draw off a jug of water everynight in case the water goes off!

(I haven't got a car but if I ever did find myself in possession of one, having read your post above, I'd be sure to keep a bale of straw in the boot ha!ha! )

The thing is if things really went seriously tits up the right thing to do as an old person would be to snuff it sooner rather than later and give my stocks to younger people so that's why I'm not getting too bothered about it these days.
AnonyJ said:
When the lockdowns occurred in 2020, my way of life really didn't change much.
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Same here it felt like what I'd been waiting for all my life. Well it wasn't quite the nuclear attack we'd been taught to prepare for in civil defence classes at school but it was those lessons that had alerted me to the fact of societies fragility. The biggest surprise for me of the whole covid lockdown thing was how many of my fellow citizens seemed surprised. I thought everyone knew that any day now it could all go wrong. We're making the best of it while it's all going rightish, civilisations come and go what makes folk think ours is going to go on for ever?

Anyway to address the point of this thread I fully get the covenience of electronic payments but I'm also a bit uneasy and can get all conspiracy theory over it if I think too much about it. The thought that someone can actually analyse the minutia of my shopping trolly bothers me.* I always make sure to have a certain amount of cash hidden about the house.** Besides some shop keepers prefer it as the card readers cost them.

*Well not if it's an historian from a future civilisation who comes across it ... hey I could be the subject of someones thesis in ten thousand years time!

**In case anyone reading this is planning on breaking into my house let me save you time and to stop you making a mess it's 'up in granny's room behind the clock' :)
 
There is any amount of 'what if' moments.
It's not about who caused them, it's how you deal with them that matters.
"What if the worlds banking system crashed?"
My ability to use or not use a card in an ATM would be low on my list of priorities.
I commend the idea of thinking forward, following ideas through. But you have to deal with what is now.
 
Cochise said:
Just makes sense to have backups and know how to use them.

Living in rural areas as I have for the last 30 years you learn the lesson. Power can go off. Water can stop running. Roads can get flooded/blocked.

More relevant to this thread Internet connection can be lost - that happened in my current residence for nearly TWO WEEKS a few years ago - businesses further up the valley would have been stuffed if not for cash. It was down again earlier this year but that was only a matter of hours. I now have backup as long as I can get a phone signal. But businesses with card readers can't use that alternative, AFAIK.
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The thing is though that, should the power go off, most shops will have to close anyway. Electrically powered doors, lighting, freezers will all go off, and so will the tills. So we couldn't accept cash anyway, because the tills won't work, and we aren't allowed customers in because of the health and safety implications of the doors not working, the fire alarm not working and the freezers being off.
 
catseye said:
The thing is though that, should the power go off, most shops will have to close anyway. Electrically powered doors, lighting, freezers will all go off, and so will the tills. So we couldn't accept cash anyway, because the tills won't work, and we aren't allowed customers in because of the health and safety implications of the doors not working, the fire alarm not working and the freezers being off.
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Still thinking towns. Round here they'd have oil lights or some such and they'd stick the cash in a drawer. It'll be cities that are in strife if the systems shut down, not the countryside.
 
Cochise said:
Still thinking towns. Round here they'd have oil lights or some such and they'd stick the cash in a drawer. It'll be cities that are in strife if the systems shut down, not the countryside.
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Except that I'm in the countryside. Not even a town, or only barely. And we had to close when a lightning strike took our electricity out.
 
catseye said:
Except that I'm in the countryside. Not even a town, or only barely. And we had to close when a lightning strike took our electricity out.
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Well, OK, But there are no supermarkets up this valley. True the freezers would be a problem, but otherwise we'd manage - and we have, through previous power cuts.
 
I don’t know if this news made it to other countries, but this past September 10th Las Vegas casinos and ATM machines got hacked.

People could not get money and people could not get into their hotel rooms.

The casinos ending up paying a hack group called Scattered Spider 30 million dollars.

Are our banking accounts really safe ?

It seems the hackers get what they want.

Someone said in the UK the post office is the bank for most people, not so in the U.S.
 
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