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The Abolition Of Cash

Analogue Boy said:
Remember when parking was just a simple matter of putting a coin in a meter and leaving the ticket on the dash? Well ‘progress’ has made it a lot more complicated than that.

Hackers steal customer data from Europe’s largest parking app operator​



EasyPark Group, the owner of brands including RingGo and ParkMobile, said customer names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses and parts of credit card numbers had been taken but said parking data had not been compromised in the cyber-attack.
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Oh thank goodness the parking data was not compromised. (Spoken in a heavily sarcastic tone):roll:
 
It's interesting that I and many, many people with very different views on the world to myself (the dreaded "p" word I'm afraid) are in complete agreement in opposing the abolition of cash.

Many, many issues are bi-partisan (multi-partisan?) and we all lose sight of that too easily.
 
However, just because many people with differing world-views oppose something, doesn't mean to say it can't/won't happen.
There's good arguments on both sides of this issue, but many opinions are based not on actual fact and available technology but on their distrust of politicians and banks.
What can be done is theory, and depends on how we feel about the financial world. I know personal experience will impact on this. It's like when new legislation is proposed and discussed, how it's received by the public isn't over what the law intends but the possible use by a body that you distrust. If you trust the body to implement the law with that intent in mind then there's no problem.
Like many things, such as social media, the 'thing' is neutral - it depends on who is using the 'thing'.
Many, many issues are bi-partisan (multi-partisan?) and we all lose sight of that too easily.
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Perhaps. But that leaves out the possibility of nuance - I suggest that more issues aren't a binary choice. It's not a question of "Should we do this, yes or no?" but of "This thing is going to happen - how do we reduce harmful impact."
 
Analogue Boy said:
Remember when parking was just a simple matter of putting a coin in a meter and leaving the ticket on the dash? Well ‘progress’ has made it a lot more complicated than that.

Hackers steal customer data from Europe’s largest parking app operator​




https://www.theguardian.com/technol...europe-parking-app-easypark-ringgo-parkmobile
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The local car parks in Braintree run by the council have resorted to parking apps requiring customers to register their card data.
We just left the car park as I didn’t want to register my card.
The formerly packed car parks are now relatively empty and the local businesses are complaining that their trade has suffered.

Now I feel justified in refusing to register my details.
 
Tempest63 said:
The local car parks in Braintree run by the council have resorted to parking apps requiring customers to register their card data.
We just left the car park as I didn’t want to register my card.
The formerly packed car parks are now relatively empty and the local businesses are complaining that their trade has suffered.

Now I feel justified in refusing to register my details.
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They also collect and sell your data. All free apps, including parking meter apps, do as well as most paid for apps. Data has almost become a currency in it's own right as online companies fight to sell you something, anything, provided it hits your 'on' button. Online advertising is what the internet has become all about. Especially Google.
 
All the cash machines are out of use in the village again,
though there are lots of reasons this may happen I always
suspect it's due to some sort of hacking attack especially
when large areas or provider are involved.
:omr: :dunno:
 
One of the few ATM's in our town took 2 weeks to return into service. Software breakdown, apparently.
It must be said that the current Post Office scandal could be related to this whole suspicion of 'online' finance. After all, the computer system was faulty and showed thousands of £££ of 'missing money' ... which wasn't actually missing.
However, it wasn't that the senior execs thought their system was infallible. What is was is that a large corporation threw the victims of software glitches to the wolves because an admission of an expensive software failure would affect the market price of the business that was being sold off.
 
Slightly off topic - One of the reasons I refuse to have a smart meter for my electric is that it's run by software and all software can crash or be hacked into. The meter I have at present is mechanical. It has the wheel that rotates when a current is passed through it.

Apart from all the other nefarious implications of a cashless society, it would run on software and will always be vulnerable to glitches, like the post office scandal, and being hacked into.

With cash in my pocket, apart from being mugged or losing it, there's not much else that can go wrong.
 
Another benefit to a 'mechanical' meter is that when you live in shabby lodgings, as I have, the rate at which you pay can get set by your landlord, not the electricity company.
I don't know if it's legal now or then, but a couple of decades ago, my electricity was supplied by a 50p coin meter. I was paying over the odds for my leccy. The meter would be checked by a qualified electrician - hired by the landlord not the supplier - who checked the workings and the lead seals for tampering, and regularly adjust 'up' to suit the landlord.
 
Our local Asda as been closed since 2am nobody seems sure why possible problems
with tills and computers, it's closed so wont even take cash.
 
Cash is so useful for teaching children the value of things.
Youngest daughter is trying giving small amounts to her boy for small chores so that he can buy something without pestering her for things all the time.
He's been going to work with them this last week as it's holidays and after he cleaned a window( on his own will) he was given a coin ( $2 all the change she had) he enthusiastically went and found more things to do for his Father ,who also works there, and joyfully accepted some more.
 
Iris said:
Cash is so useful for teaching children the value of things.
Youngest daughter is trying giving small amounts to her boy for small chores so that he can buy something without pestering her for things all the time.
He's been going to work with them this last week as it's holidays and after he cleaned a window( on his own will) he was given a coin ( $2 all the change she had) he enthusiastically went and found more things to do for his Father ,who also works there, and joyfully accepted some more.
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Cash is something tangible. A theoretical amount on a card is not.

When I first started work aged 15 in Jan 1973 I had a weekly wage packet. (My parents found me an attic flat and kicked me out as soon as I started work and looking back, I don't blame them. I was a nightmare as a kid.) I had envelopes I put money in. One for rent, one for the electricity meter, one for bus fares to work, etc. Money was very real. I could not get into debt. Now due to credit and pay by card, most people are in debt.

The worst bit about todays monetary system is the cash that the card represents doesn't even exist. It's called the FIAT monetary system.

'Fiat money is declared legal tender by the government that issues it. This includes money in circulation such as paper money or coins. Fiat money is backed by a country's government rather than by a physical commodity or financial instrument.'.
 
kesavaross said:
Cash is something tangible. A theoretical amount on a card is not.

When I first started work aged 15 in Jan 1973 I had a weekly wage packet. (My parents found me an attic flat and kicked me out as soon as I started work and looking back, I don't blame them. I was a nightmare as a kid.) I had envelopes I put money in. One for rent, one for the electricity meter, one for bus fares to work, etc. Money was very real. I could not get into debt. Now due to credit and pay by card, most people are in debt.

The worst bit about todays monetary system is the cash that the card represents doesn't even exist. It's called the FIAT monetary system.

'Fiat money is declared legal tender by the government that issues it. This includes money in circulation such as paper money or coins. Fiat money is backed by a country's government rather than by a physical commodity or financial instrument.'.
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Britain left the gold standard in 1931 so we’ve had a fiat currency for nigh on 100 years. Cash is part of that fiat currency.
 
hunck said:
Britain left the gold standard in 1931 so we’ve had a fiat currency for nigh on 100 years. Cash is part of that fiat currency.
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That is true. The FIAT system was first proposed strangly enough just after the sinking of the Titanic. Two people on board who died were high ranking bankers who opposed the proposed central bank currency idea that was due to be debated in the USA. The Rothschild central banking idea then took shape. There's obviously much more to it than that. That's one for the conspiracy theorists and not me.

The system of currency has undergone many changes since 1931. The main one being how much reserves a bank must hold to be viable as a bank. Now, I believe, and I may be wrong, it's zero.
 
Cash has only ever been worth what a government says it does, since the actual material value was reduced. A copper, silver or gold coin was made from those materials. The exchange of coin was, in effect, the exchange of those valuable materials in a portable manner.
The attempt to combat counterfeit and theft, as well as national finances, meant the coinage was debased.
Cash has for a long time been 'virtual'. Or rather it's value is.
Think of this: the 'Cash is King' supporters become so vocal, so popular, that banks fear hoarding. They don't need to make it illegal, or force shops to become 'card only'. All they have to do is reduce it's value. Say, by declaring card payments are 'worth more' than cash payments. We'd immediately want to be paid via bank and pay for goods and services by card because you get better value. Sure, you can still pay with cash ... but it's not worth as much.
 
kesavaross said:
That is true. The FIAT system was first proposed strangly enough just after the sinking of the Titanic. Two people on board who died were high ranking bankers who opposed the proposed central bank currency idea that was due to be debated in the USA. The Rothschild central banking idea then took shape. There's obviously much more to it than that. That's one for the conspiracy theorists and not me.

The system of currency has undergone many changes since 1931. The main one being how much reserves a bank must hold to be viable as a bank. Now, I believe, and I may be wrong, it's zero.
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Not in the EU.
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/educational/explainers/tell-me/html/minimum_reserve_req.en.html
Minimum reserve was set in Nov last as "1% of specific liabilities on their balance sheets – mainly customer deposits and debt securities with maturities of up to two years."
 
Local Asda as gone card only on petrol, but only 2 of the pumps are accepting cards and
they reject any card that as less than £100 on.
:omr:
 
RaM said:
Local Asda as gone card only on petrol, but only 2 of the pumps are accepting cards and
they reject any card that as less than £100 on.
:omr:
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So what happens if you use one that doesn't accept cards?
 
Analogue Boy said:
Still want to get rid of cash?

Now Tesco is hit by IT meltdown hours after Sainsbury's shoppers were stopped from contactless paying and online purchases - as Every Little Helps store also cancels home deliveries​

  • Sainsbury's cannot fulfil online orders or accept contactless payments today
  • All stores are 'open as usual' and can accept chip and pin or cash payments

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13204241/Sainsburys-hit-major-technical-issue-UK.html
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They could take cash and card with pin. Us in Argos inside of Sainsburys ended up only being able to take card payments on the browsers as our tills went down as a knock on effect (eventually the browsers went too)

We were assured it was an update issue. But it seems a big coincidence that Tescos goes too, McDonald’s yesterday and Meta/Facebook the other week.
 
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