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The Abolition Of Cash

I'm always touting a sensible 'middle way' - get tech-savvy and IT literate but use cash for small businesses, local independent enterprises, low value transactions and for occasions one might not want a bank/anyone else snooping. Cash is great for gifts and impromptu presents.

We save the cards for big chains, big purchases where Section 75 protection would be useful, and similar stuff.
 
These happenings are a good illustration of why we shouldn't abandon cash. The fact that so many systems have gone down at the same time means that they are interconnected and may have been hacked.
 
Mythopoeika said:
These happenings are a good illustration of why we shouldn't abandon cash. The fact that so many systems have gone down at the same time means that they are interconnected and may have been hacked.
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Yes but most places can’t take cash if the system goes down totally. I’ve only seen it in Subway once when the system went down and someone was sorting the payments by hand. Very few places could do that.
 
MorningAngel said:
Talking of systems I had a customer turn up after we’d closed thinking nay insisting I could do a replacement with no till and no computer. Since about 15 years ago our stock is kept in random locations and only the computer knows where.
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Did you tell him, 'computer says no'?
 
AnonyJ said:
and for occasions one might not want a bank/anyone else snooping.
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And this is the main reason governments want to get rid of cash. To catch the bad guys and see that everyone pays their way.

The irony is that the bad guys always know the ways of getting around prevention methods. It is only the majority of us who are, for the most part, honest that continue to pay our way and pay for the dishonest.
 
brownmane said:
And this is the main reason governments want to get rid of cash. To catch the bad guys and see that everyone pays their way.

The irony is that the bad guys always know the ways of getting around prevention methods. It is only the majority of us who are, for the most part, honest that continue to pay our way and pay for the dishonest.
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It's also one of individual powers we still have - to pay in cash and f*** the data collection by the banks et al. One might not want them to know we just spent £386 in Madame Nasty's Adult Toy Emporium*.

Given that the bank/financial merchant creams off 1.5+% of every transaction by cards, the idea they are doing us a favour by promoting cashless tech is, IMO, completely misleading.

*not that I'd ever do such a thing. I'd spend much more!
 
AnonyJ said:
It's also one of individual powers we still have - to pay in cash and f*** the data collection by the banks et al. One might not want them to know we just spent £386 in Madame Nasty's Adult Toy Emporium*.

Given that the bank/financial merchant creams off 1.5+% of every transaction by cards, the idea they are doing us a favour by promoting cashless tech is, IMO, completely misleading.

*not that I'd ever do such a thing. I'd spend much more!
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I’m pretty sure banks still make charges on retailers for paying money in and getting change out.
 
brownmane said:
And this is the main reason governments want to get rid of cash. To catch the bad guys and see that everyone pays their way.

The irony is that the bad guys always know the ways of getting around prevention methods. It is only the majority of us who are, for the most part, honest that continue to pay our way and pay for the dishonest.
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I don't think they give a flying fuck about catching the bad guys, they'll mostly only end up catching small time crooks, organised crime and big players will find ways around it they always do.

I recall in the aftermath of the financial crisis, there was analysis that laundered drug money, in the billions, was partially propping up banks. People buying drugs on the street are not going to use their debit/credit card and dealers certainly wouldn't want to be messing around with that. I'm more than cynical enough to think politicians, banks, big business want the drug money in banks, as it benefits them all. So they still need cash to exist. Crypto could be a way around it, I know people who buy crypto to buy drugs online on the dark web. I've not heard of people buying from dealers with crypto on their phone but I dare say it might happen.
 
How many people have seen the ‘new’ ten pence with the letters on? They came out years ago and even though I work in a shop I’ve never seen one. I heard of people who have.
 
MorningAngel said:
They could take cash and card with pin. Us in Argos inside of Sainsburys ended up only being able to take card payments on the browsers as our tills went down as a knock on effect (eventually the browsers went too)

We were assured it was an update issue. But it seems a big coincidence that Tescos goes too, McDonald’s yesterday and Meta/Facebook the other week.
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It was a little suspicious, I guess admitting that there was a multi pronged attack would create panic and the call to retaliate in kind on the plus side the systems if they were attacked were quite resilient and were back up in no time
 
brownmane said:
And this is the main reason governments want to get rid of cash. To catch the bad guys and see that everyone pays their way.

The irony is that the bad guys always know the ways of getting around prevention methods. It is only the majority of us who are, for the most part, honest that continue to pay our way and pay for the dishonest.
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I am not sure it's governments that are driving this change, more like business finds it cheaper, safer and more convenient and most consumers feel the same it also has the added effect of making criminals work much harder to launder money
 
Ogdred Weary said:
I don't think they give a flying fuck about catching the bad guys, they'll mostly only end up catching small time crooks, organised crime and big players will find ways around it they always do.
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Maybe I should have worded it a little differently. It is the reason that is given. It may not be the intent. It makes it easier to convince people for the need to banish cash - preventing crime, rather than explain that it makes it easier to collect taxes and cut out the "shadow" economy.
 
AnonyJ said:
Given that the bank/financial merchant creams off 1.5+% of every transaction by cards, [...]
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1) If a firm uses a business account, then you are charged for depositing cash, withdrawing cash, and even using an ATM. This income allows banks to give 'free' transactions to personal accounts.
2) Some systems charge you rental for the machine, a fee to act as your merchant bank (i.e. taking your electronic money & banking it into your 'ordinary' account) and a transaction fee. These, however have fallen out of favour and now you can get systems where you buy your handset, the fee being paid for the card firm transferring the e-money into your account without being a merchant host.
3) A fee of 1.5% is a pittance. A firm should look at any transaction fee as coming out of your profits, as an expenditure. If you aren't making a lot more than 1.5% profit on a transaction then you should re-evaluate your business!

Our minimum product price was 50p. A fee of 1.5% would leave 0.4925p to us, to deduct about 15p cost of production. The argument of "all those fees add-up" is countered by so do profits.
 
Rather than abolishing cash I think we'd be better off if we abolished banks. After all most of the human race managed without them until a few decades ago.
 
Went to Sainsburys tonight. Usual queue of people waiting for booze validation which, as there was only one person on self service and they were occupied going through three bags of one woman’s self scan gizmo, left us all standing like Ben Affleck in that cigarette pose.
Five minutes later, I’m filling up in their petrol station and on going to the kiosk to pay, find out the computer’s down and they can’t get the pump readings never mind link it to the till.
Ever the shrinking violet, I suggested they open a bottle of Jack Daniels as a goodwill gesture and added, ‘I have cash’. They reboot the system and it still doesn’t work but at least they can call up the amount on the pump but can’t take card payment. I hand over £50 cash and get change from the till. The lady behind the counter makes a note ’Pump 4 and the amount paid on a piece of paper and I smuggly walk past a queue of 15 people saying ‘Cash is King!’

I say smug but it was really a large helping of vindication with a mere sprinkling of smugness accompanying my exit. It was total chaos in there.
 
Stormkhan said:
Yep.
Give burglars more of an income. ;)
After all 'in those days' prices were lower and we didn't need to hoard so much.
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I don't think burglars are struggling in the UK. . In the US, they just shoot them. Bear in mind I've lived in both places. Never even bothered to lock our doors in the US.
 
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Cochise said:
I don't think burglars are struggling in the UK. . In the US, they just shoot them. Bear in mind I've lived in both places. Never even bothered to lock our doors in the US.
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Be a lot easier just to have cash and not have to sell the stuff they pinch.

I don’t trust the cash machines haven’t been fiddled with when I do get cash out.
 
When all is said and done people are arguing over some paper notes and coins that used to represent something of value but are now just promissory, does it really make any difference to how we hand over these notes and coins? Sure the technology can break down but if it got to the point where it broke down completely there won't be lines of smug looking people with cash because the system will be that broke that nothing will work

Money is really a great illusion it beats paying for things in shells and beads but it still only has the value we choose to give it , what's funny and strange is we have developed whole industries and professions for dealing with it
 
Analogue Boy said:
Ever the shrinking violet, I suggested they open a bottle of Jack Daniels as a goodwill gesture and added, ‘I have cash’. They reboot the system and it still doesn’t work but at least they can call up the amount on the pump but can’t take card payment. I hand over £50 cash and get change from the till. The lady behind the counter makes a note ’Pump 4 and the amount paid on a piece of paper and I smuggly walk past a queue of 15 people saying ‘Cash is King!’

I say smug but it was really a large helping of vindication with a mere sprinkling of smugness accompanying my exit. It was total chaos in there.
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Anyone else impressed that she knew how to make change? That’s a skill that is being quickly lost.
 
Iris said:
Cash is so useful for teaching children the value of things.
Youngest daughter is trying giving small amounts to her boy for small chores so that he can buy something without pestering her for things all the time.
He's been going to work with them this last week as it's holidays and after he cleaned a window( on his own will) he was given a coin ( $2 all the change she had) he enthusiastically went and found more things to do for his Father ,who also works there, and joyfully accepted some more.
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I reckon that young Fella will go far Iris.
 
It's affecting pie shops now that's just not on, I am wondering if this
is a bad software update on the servers or some kind of attack, I am
always suspicious when normally reliable robust and secure systems
start to have problems. :dunno:
The two most likely things to bring the UK to it's knees are disabling
it's pie shops and it's bogs, not many computerised bogs about so
are they going for the pie shops?:)
:omr:

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-03-20/greggs-shut-after-it-outage-affects-payment-systems
 
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