The Mandela Effect: False Memory

EnolaGaia

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... (What I mean is, would they possibly point to a different site - perhaps the one you're finding that says 'closed' was a previous incarnation of her site and she since (when you read her stuff in 2015) was on a different site? Is that possible? ...
Bingo ... It's not only possible, it's the odds-on explanation.

As of 2015 (when Ulalume initially visited and signed on as a subscriber), the original (and almost certainly 'wide-open'; unsecured) Kendra site had already been closed for up to 4 years.

When Ulalume recently went looking for the site she'd seen and subscribed to, she relied on the Wayback Machine (archive.org).

The WM can't archive anything to which its bots and crawlers are denied access. Kendra's implementation of subscribers and limited access imposed a firewall of sorts. The WM can't crawl and store stuff that's out of sight behind firewalls unless the firewall implementation specifically accords archive.org crawlers access to do so.

I'd bet the 2011 closure notice was the only thing Kendra left outside the firewall. This made it the only thing the WM could access and store from the entire Kendra site for years thereafter.

The later (secured; firewalled) Kendra site Ulalume knew hadn't disappeared from the WM - it was never archived there in the first place.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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This Mandela Effect, I don’t think it means what people think it means...
My understanding is that it is instances of shared collective knowledge of changes such as a scene in a movie being different, Berenstein / stain bears, and not to mention the date of Nelson Mandela's death. Things that many people have the exact same memories of which now inexplicably seem to be different. (Although of course memory is infallible, I find it hard to accept that all these people are mistaken, especially when they are all mistaken in the same way).

Whereas more personal changes, such as someone's friend who had a baby girl only for it to later actually be a baby boy, or a mature tree existing in a garden where the day before there was no such tree, a telephone box that is either there or not there on any given day when walking past etc, etc, are referred to as Glitches in the Matrix. Things that are only personal to maybe one person. (Again I believe that this can happen, having experienced things myself).

That's just my understanding though :) What do you think it means?


I have the strangest memory of other recent postings to this Thread that simply don't exist - it's a little frightening.
Interesting... can you give any examples?
 
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I was reading the comments below this video on youtube (Hounds of Love, Kate Bush) and was astonished at the number of people who hadn't noticed that on the album cover she is pictured with two dogs. No one is claiming she never had dogs with her, but it goes to show how people can miss things that are right in front of them.
I wont add a link as that will just put the video here. Go to


and start at second comment down.

EDIT: Sorry, it posted the video without me linking it as such.

Click on this to go to the relevant page -
Screen Shot 2018-11-19 at 13.53.07.png
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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I was reading the comments below this video on youtube (Hounds of Love, Kate Bush) and was astonished at the number of people who hadn't noticed that on the album cover she is pictured with two dogs. No one is claiming she never had dogs with her, but it goes to show how people can miss things that are right in front of them.
I wont add a link as that will just put the video here. Go to


and start at second comment down.

EDIT: Sorry, it posted the video without me linking it as such.

Click on this to go to the relevant page -
View attachment 13146
Don't think I've seen that album cover before but I noticed the dogs straight away, almost before I noticed Kate herself (now, that could be to do with the fact that I'd read what you said about the dogs before I looked at the picture, but then again ...

... I'm a woman and I am not that interested in what Kate looks like on the cover.

Just saying... could account for it... if we knew what the demographics of the people who hadn't noticed the dogs are... :D

:parapet:
 

EnolaGaia

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Both 'Mandela Effect' and 'Glitch in the Matrix' are terms that are only loosely defined and therefore subject to different interpretations depending on who's citing them.

IMHO there's really only a single theme or factor that reliably differentiates the two in relation to addressing something that isn't what or how one thought it is or should be:

- Invoking 'Mandela Effect' puts the onus on the memory of one or more observers (i.e., it focuses on the reliability of memory).

- Invoking 'Glitch in the Matrix' puts the onus on the world as observed (i.e., it focuses on variations in what was observed).

In other words, 'Mandela Effect' puts the blame for any confusion on individual or collective memories of 'reality', and 'Glitch in the Matrix' puts the blame on 'reality' itself.
 

ChasFink

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I was reading the comments below this video on youtube (Hounds of Love, Kate Bush) and was astonished at the number of people who hadn't noticed that on the album cover she is pictured with two dogs.
Wow! Count me in that number. But to be fair, I only have the CD (small picture, failing eyesight) and always assumed she had a fur stole or somesuch on her.

- Invoking 'Mandela Effect' puts the onus on the memory of one or more observers (i.e., it focuses on the reliability of memory).

- Invoking 'Glitch in the Matrix' puts the onus on the world as observed (i.e., it focuses on variations in what was observed).

In other words, 'Mandela Effect' puts the blame for any confusion on individual or collective memories of 'reality', and 'Glitch in the Matrix' puts the blame on 'reality' itself.
I wouldn't say "Mandela Effect" blames memory. Fiona Broome, who is credited with creating the term, explicitly says on her website it's not false memory .
 

EnolaGaia

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I wouldn't say "Mandela Effect" blames memory. Fiona Broome, who is credited with creating the term, explicitly says on her website it's not false memory .
True, but ... The phrase has become a runaway memetic token that almost no one links back to her and her connotations for the concept.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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I think the Mandela Effect started off as things that aren't down to false memory, but like many things has snowballed somewhat to the point that some people will blame 'Mandela Effect' for anything (chocolate bar packaging, name of a film, whatever) rather than admit that they simply either (a) weren't aware really what the thing looked like before, or (b) misremembered. (Or (c) are lying just to get on the bandwagon).

But that doesn't mean that all the things reported as Mandela Effect are down to false memory.

It's like many strange/unexplained phenomena; the few potentially genuine cases get drowned out under all the rubbish.
 

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:yeahthat::agree:

And not to mention alleged Mandela effects that are just the person making the claim being dim, or deliberately claiming something that isn't true. I once saw a website where a woman said she had a King James Bible that somehow survived a change in the universe and published many examples of how it differed from most KJV Bibles that now exist. Problem is the verses she quoted were not from the KJV, but another translation, which I easily determined by Googling her quotations.
 
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Bad Bungle

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I have the strangest memory of other recent postings to this Thread that simply don't exist - it's a little frightening.

[QUOTE="Schrodinger's Zebra, post: 1802276, member: 55559"

Interesting... can you give any examples?[/QUOTE]

There was something libellous about Mandela and then his missus and then his missus again and then I went to bed. It must have all just been a dream, but seemed so real.

Hey wait a minute. EnolaGaia, Yithian - have you boys been playing with the History Erase button again ?!
 

Peripart

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I have the strangest memory of other recent postings to this Thread that simply don't exist - it's a little frightening.

Interesting... can you give any examples?
There was something libellous about Mandela and then his missus and then his missus again and then I went to bed. It must have all just been a dream, but seemed so real.

Hey wait a minute. EnolaGaia, Yithian - have you boys been playing with the History Erase button again ?!
There's another current thread with a similar theme and title. The stuff about Nelson and Winnie is on that one, I think.

I would link to that thread, or maybe recommend it for merging, but I'm on my phone, and it makes such things a bit trickier.
 

Kchoo

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I accidentally started to re-read the whole last page of this thread, thinking I had scrolled from the next to last page. It freaked me out at first because I was sure I navigated from one page prior, when in fact it just took me to the top of the same and final page
 

AnonyJoolz

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When it comes to the original 'Mandela' of the afore-mentioned effect, two things spring to mind:

Given that Great Britain had close ties with South Africa since colonialisation and afterwards, SA was regularly in the news and most of knew how Nelson was doing (ie., alive) and the general goings on politically in that nation. Other countries apart from Commonwealth nations may not have had this level of regular news information.

The only 'big' international death to have made an impression on me in the 1980s (apart from John Lennon in 1980 itself) was the assassination of Indira Gandhi - which seemed to have a lot of coverage, film of her funeral and crowds of mourners. I can recall a few aspects of it today (though probably not reliably).

Therefore I am wondering if that trusty old standard conflation might be an explanation - people remembering a massive, highly newsworthy funeral as youngsters and then later on, thinking it must have been Nelson Mandela (unkindly suggesting that might have been the only internationally-known statesman they'd heard of?)
 

Kingsize Wombat

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I think people simply confused Stephen Biko and Nelson Mandela.

With Stephen Biko, there was a Peter Gabriel song in 1980 (with the refrain "the man is dead, the man is dead"), the "Cry Freedom" movie in 1987.

All that got mixed up in people's minds when Mandela was released just a few years later in 1990.
 

AnonyJoolz

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I think people simply confused Stephen Biko and Nelson Mandela.

With Stephen Biko, there was a Peter Gabriel song in 1980 (with the refrain "the man is dead, the man is dead"), the "Cry Freedom" movie in 1987.

All that got mixed up in people's minds when Mandela was released just a few years later in 1990.
Yes, that sounds much more likely!
 

Swifty

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Here's one about when John Lennon was shot. I haven't watched it yet so ignore it if it's bullshit

 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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Here's one about when John Lennon was shot. I haven't watched it yet so ignore it if it's bullshit

I came across that one t'other day. (I'm doing a lot of youtubing during my enforced home-time at the moment).

Your mileage may vary, as they say, but I just couldn't finish it. I stuck it out for a while but in the end I just became like this:


"If there's a point, please feel free to come to it."

1542979137383.png
 

Swifty

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I came across that one t'other day. (I'm doing a lot of youtubing during my enforced home-time at the moment).

Your mileage may vary, as they say, but I just couldn't finish it. I stuck it out for a while but in the end I just became like this:


"If there's a point, please feel free to come to it."

View attachment 13205
Yeah, I got about almost half way through and then realised it was just different reporters not reporting accurately.
 
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I came across that one t'other day. (I'm doing a lot of youtubing during my enforced home-time at the moment).

Your mileage may vary, as they say, but I just couldn't finish it. I stuck it out for a while but in the end I just became like this:


"If there's a point, please feel free to come to it."

View attachment 13205
You look like Gillian Anderson? Cara Mia!
 

Vardoger

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Regarding the car confusion in the JFK assassination.

There may be a reason for the 4-seats/6-seats Mandela effect confusion. Some say they remember only 4-seats. I found a photo from Fort Worth, Texas on the day he was assassinated where the Kennedy couple is in a 4-seat car. It is possible they switched to the 6-seat car in Dallas.

Fort Worth, Texas
kennedy-pic-for-joel-1 fortworth question.jpg

Source: Former Poly High Students Share Unique JFK History

This one may be harder to explain:

Mandela Effect JFK LIFE cover.jpg
 
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Schrodinger's Zebra

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Regarding the car confusion in the JFK assassination.

There may be a reason for the 4-seats/6-seats Mandela effect confusion. Some say they remember only 4-seats. I found a photo from Fort Worth, Texas on the day he was assassinated where the Kennedy couple is in a 4-seat car. It is possible they switched to the 6-seat car in Dallas.

Fort Worth, Texas
View attachment 13520

Source: Former Poly High Students Share Unique JFK History
Well done Sir! :hoff: I think that certainly would explain the confusion about the number of seats. Must admit I wasn't aware of the change of car at any rate.


This one may be harder to explain:

View attachment 13521
I've done a search and found another version of your second picture, this time from inside the magazine, along with some text, see below picture with yellow text - seems this is not the JFK car but Vice President Johnson's car:

1544350847561.png

Very confusing and from a magazine point-of-view the reader, seeing the headline and picture, would be forgiven for thinking they were looking at a picture of JFK's car. That's journalism for you. :(
 

James_H

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I was tutoring a 9 year old boy yesterday and he started talking about the Mandela effect. I asked him to explain it to me, curious to hear what he might say. He asked me how 'Adidas' was spelled so I told him. He said wrong, that's how it used to be spelled, and now it's 'ADDIAS'. It took all I had not to tell him that maybe the problem was just that he didn't know how to spell.
 
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