The Mandela Effect: False Memory

CuriousIdent

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Looks good. How old were the girls?

Did you get more out of playing Putnam or Hale?

The youngest was 13 the others 16, 17 and our Abigail was 21. This was a really positive show for the entire company, as it allowed us to cast from basically every age range which we cater for - from the youth theatre right up to the guys in their 70s who have been with us since the 1960s.

Which did I get more out of? That's a hard call to make. I actually played Hale at 20, with the average age of the cast being 19. It was a uni production and we simply couldn't make the most of it due to limited budget, space and time. Nor was I really of the age to truly feel the part (if you'll excuse how pretentious that sounds). I hadn't the life experience to do it justice.

Putnam (though only present for 2 acts, and the second only having a single line) was a fascinating part to play. He really is reprehensible, selfish and cruel man, only interested in any scenario if he is able to take some kind of advantage from it. He is happy to buy into the notion of Witchcraft because it gives him legitimate claim as to why his children have died in childbirth. One which he feels will absolve him of fault. The choice of words when tells his wife to explain the situation to Rev Parris is quite deliberate "Anne. Tell Mr Parris what you have done!" He blames her for stillbirth, and refuses to contemplate that he may be part of the problem.

He is a horrible man.

You can trace some kind of fingerprint from Putnam on almost every person tried and hanged. Be it personal grudge (Giles Corey in particular) or a grab for land. Whilst he would certainly protest innocence in any such claim publicly, there ca be no doubt that he is guilty of killing his neighbors for personal gain, even if to cover his tracks of such.
 

Frideswide

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Parris is fascinating - if I'm remembering right you can read that he, the clergyman, wants eg Procter to confess so that his body can be saved, even if confessing the lie puts the soul at risk.
 

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CALLING ALL AMERICANS!

Another video from All Time Scary. A lot of his content is quite lame - quibbles over spellings and names and the like - and I also find it Amerocentric to the point where, as a Brit, I often have no opinion on what he's talking about. However, I do like the guy's unassuming presentation style for some reason, so find myself dipping in from time to time

This one about New York does seem a bit spooky - particularly on the exact location of the Statue of L:iberty and the Black Tom explosion of 1916 (which was a German terrorist attack on New York that many people claim not to have been aware of).

And this is where we need some American input. Are these things really as puzzling as this guy is making out - or is he just ill-educated?

 

EnolaGaia

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He's just lacking in deep knowledge of certain matters and trying to force-fit obscure events into the Mandela Effect mold.

To be fair, the murky domestic events leading up to American entry into WW1 are essentially forgotten history that's rarely encountered in primary / secondary school history texts and classes. Most Americans simply haven't ever been made aware of these events, so the more dramatic Lusitania sinking remains as the sole popularly cited cause.

In any case, the munitions vaporized at Black Tom weren't American military materiel. They were mostly components of a massive shipment awaiting transport to the purchaser - Russia. The fact that this sabotage was directed at the supply chain of a far-off European combatant didn't exactly make it a flash point for entering a war most Americans of the time didn't give a rat's ass about.
 

onetwothree

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When I was young, I loved the Enid Blyton school story series. I was very scornful at a stage adaptation of one of them, called Malory Towers. "Huh, they can't even get the name right", I thought. It was only after doing a proper Abebooks search that I realised it's never been 'Mallory' Towers at all; it's only ever had one l. Made me feel very, very odd.
 

Tribble

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When I was young, I loved the Enid Blyton school story series. I was very scornful at a stage adaptation of one of them, called Malory Towers. "Huh, they can't even get the name right", I thought. It was only after doing a proper Abebooks search that I realised it's never been 'Mallory' Towers at all; it's only ever had one l. Made me feel very, very odd.
Could your memory have been tainted by such things as the jigaws from 1977?

Bottom of page : https://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/malory-towers.php
 

onetwothree

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I don't remember ever seeing those jigsaws, so unlikely. I asked my sister what she remembers too and she could have sworn the word had 2 ls. Really weird!
 

Krepostnoi

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I don't remember ever seeing those jigsaws, so unlikely. I asked my sister what she remembers too and she could have sworn the word had 2 ls. Really weird!
If it's any consolation, I would have put my fiver on the double L without hesitation. And I've had tea with Enid's daughter, so you'd think I'd know... ;)
 

ChasFink

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CALLING ALL AMERICANS!

Another video from All Time Scary. A lot of his content is quite lame - quibbles over spellings and names and the like - and I also find it Amerocentric to the point where, as a Brit, I often have no opinion on what he's talking about. However, I do like the guy's unassuming presentation style for some reason, so find myself dipping in from time to time

This one about New York does seem a bit spooky - particularly on the exact location of the Statue of L:iberty and the Black Tom explosion of 1916 (which was a German terrorist attack on New York that many people claim not to have been aware of).

And this is where we need some American input. Are these things really as puzzling as this guy is making out - or is he just ill-educated?

Ill-educated is my take on it.

Grand Central Terminal: He plainly states his own research shows that "Grand Central Station" has always been what people call it. It's just not common for people to call a station "terminal", even if that's the formal name. The only way this could be a Mandela Effect example is if many people remember seeing the building labeled Grand Central Station - and he doesn't claim that.

Location of the Statue of Liberty: Ellis Island is associated with the statue not because the statue is on the island, but because it's a darn huge symbol of America one sees when approaching the island. The Ellis Island coin simply echoes this. No one who lives in the area and cares about these matters would say otherwise.

I'm not sure what point he's trying to make with the photos of the statue and its location, unless he's trying to say it's in New York, not New Jersey. (It's an odd thing to be sure: although Liberty Island is on the New Jersey side of the border that runs through Upper New York Bay and the Hudson River, it is part of the Borough of Manhattan and owned by the U.S. federal government - So it's a federally owned part of New York surrounded by New Jersey waters.) The photos clearly show it where it should be.

The Black Tom explosion: EnolaGaia pretty much said all that needs to be said.

Damage/Repairs to the Statue of Liberty: This is poor education - or ignorance - to be sure. Are there significant numbers of people who remember visiting the arm of the statue in the 1920s through the 1990s? I think not. And the damage to the arm and torch in the Black Tom incident was repaired at that time, not 70 years later. The repairs to the entire statue in the 1980s included repairs to the arm and replacement of the torch, which were necessary due to water damage caused in part by the repair and ill-advised alteration in 1916.
 

Min Bannister

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When I was young, I loved the Enid Blyton school story series. I was very scornful at a stage adaptation of one of them, called Malory Towers. "Huh, they can't even get the name right", I thought. It was only after doing a proper Abebooks search that I realised it's never been 'Mallory' Towers at all; it's only ever had one l. Made me feel very, very odd.
What? Two l's, surely!
 

Bad Bungle

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I saw an illustration of the cover of the first edition of Frankenstein. stating the authoress to be Mary Wollstonecraft and for many many years bridled at the widespread assertion it had been written by Mary Shelley. I assumed she had written the novel before marrying 'Bysshe' and by convention her huband's name took precedence over her achievements - ironic as her mother (also Mary Wollstonecraft) had been the leading Feminist of her era. Eventually (and quite recently) I had to concede that Mary had married Shelley before writing Frankenstein and her maiden name wouldn't have been from her mother anyway but from her father (William Godwin). Question remained of what was it I saw that convinced me Frankenstein was written by Wollstonecraft and not Shelley. I think I have it, I now recall a wonderful illustration of Victor's lab as he worked on his Monster, in a write-up on a comic artist in a Graphic novel (maybe Judge Dredd Megazine). The illustration of the cover of the first edition would most probably therefore be 'artistic licence'.
Within the last few months however, I have noticed on places like Amazon that Mary Shelley is now referred to as Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and in reference sites as née Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin - I certainly don't remember her having Wollstonecraft as a middle name or a double barrelled name.
 

Tribble

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I saw an illustration of the cover of the first edition of Frankenstein. stating the authoress to be Mary Wollstonecraft and for many many years bridled at the widespread assertion it had been written by Mary Shelley. I assumed she had written the novel before marrying 'Bysshe' and by convention her huband's name took precedence over her achievements - ironic as her mother (also Mary Wollstonecraft) had been the leading Feminist of her era. Eventually (and quite recently) I had to concede that Mary had married Shelley before writing Frankenstein and her maiden name wouldn't have been from her mother anyway but from her father (William Godwin). Question remained of what was it I saw that convinced me Frankenstein was written by Wollstonecraft and not Shelley. I think I have it, I now recall a wonderful illustration of Victor's lab as he worked on his Monster, in a write-up on a comic artist in a Graphic novel (maybe Judge Dredd Megazine). The illustration of the cover of the first edition would most probably therefore be 'artistic licence'.
Within the last few months however, I have noticed on places like Amazon that Mary Shelley is now referred to as Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and in reference sites as née Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin - I certainly don't remember her having Wollstonecraft as a middle name or a double barrelled name.
Wollstonecraft would be her matronymic middle name. Fairly common in the old days for a child to be given the mother's maiden name as a given name. Especially when your mother is a leading feminist who didn't take her husband's surname.
 

EnolaGaia

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I saw an illustration of the cover of the first edition of Frankenstein. stating the authoress to be Mary Wollstonecraft and for many many years bridled at the widespread assertion it had been written by Mary Shelley. ... Question remained of what was it I saw that convinced me Frankenstein was written by Wollstonecraft and not Shelley. ... Within the last few months however, I have noticed on places like Amazon that Mary Shelley is now referred to as Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and in reference sites as née Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin - I certainly don't remember her having Wollstonecraft as a middle name or a double barrelled name.
It's the reverse for me ... During my early reading years (very late Fifties into the Sixties) I always saw her name given as Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, and never simply "Mary Shelley." It wouldn't be until much later that I saw her cited as "Mary Shelley."

I don't ever recall her being listed or cited as only "Mary Wollstonecraft." That would have caused confusion with her well-known mother.

As to original editions and name citations - it's complicated ...

She conceived the story before marrying Shelley (in summer 1816). She and Shelley were married in December 1816. She finished the novel in early summer 1817, and the very first edition was published in early 1818.

The very first (1818) edition was published anonymously (no author's name given).

This means the "first edition" you saw and remember was "first" in some other sense than the very first edition published.
 

Zeke Newbold

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Ill-educated is my take on it.

Grand Central Terminal: He plainly states his own research shows that "Grand Central Station" has always been what people call it. It's just not common for people to call a station "terminal", even if that's the formal name. The only way this could be a Mandela Effect example is if many people remember seeing the building labeled Grand Central Station - and he doesn't claim that.

Location of the Statue of Liberty: Ellis Island is associated with the statue not because the statue is on the island, but because it's a darn huge symbol of America one sees when approaching the island. The Ellis Island coin simply echoes this. No one who lives in the area and cares about these matters would say otherwise.

I'm not sure what point he's trying to make with the photos of the statue and its location, unless he's trying to say it's in New York, not New Jersey. (It's an odd thing to be sure: although Liberty Island is on the New Jersey side of the border that runs through Upper New York Bay and the Hudson River, it is part of the Borough of Manhattan and owned by the U.S. federal government - So it's a federally owned part of New York surrounded by New Jersey waters.) The photos clearly show it where it should be.

The Black Tom explosion: EnolaGaia pretty much said all that needs to be said.

Damage/Repairs to the Statue of Liberty: This is poor education - or ignorance - to be sure. Are there significant numbers of people who remember visiting the arm of the statue in the 1920s through the 1990s? I think not. And the damage to the arm and torch in the Black Tom incident was repaired at that time, not 70 years later. The repairs to the entire statue in the 1980s included repairs to the arm and replacement of the torch, which were necessary due to water damage caused in part by the repair and ill-advised alteration in 1916.

Thanks Chasfink - that's just the kind of lerned, detailed rejoinder I was angling for.

I continue to find the widespread ignornce around the Black Tom attack to be surprising though. I had never heard of it until recently (and then only though Mandela Effect related sources) and it seems as though the same applies to many Americans too.

I thought the received wisdom was that Pearl Harbour was the first attack on American soil by a foreign power follwed by 9/11 - and that both of these events were unique and shocking by dint of this very fact.

Could the Black Tom incident be a bit of a source of national embarrasment and hence glossed over somewhat by national historians?
 

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When I was young, I loved the Enid Blyton school story series. I was very scornful at a stage adaptation of one of them, called Malory Towers. "Huh, they can't even get the name right", I thought. It was only after doing a proper Abebooks search that I realised it's never been 'Mallory' Towers at all; it's only ever had one l. Made me feel very, very odd.
To be honest ---you have stumped me .When I was young ,I read lots of Enid Blyton books and I could have sworn it was Mallory Towers,with 2 L's My head is still spinning
 

ChasFink

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If anything, Pearl Harbor might have been the first attack on American soil by a foreign military that was not at war with the U.S. I'm not even sure if that's the case, but it was the fact that Japan hadn't officially declared war that made it such a surprise. (They actually intended to declare war shortly before the attack, but that was bungled.)

It can be argued that the Black Tom attack was not a military attack per se, but an act of sabotage. In any event, it didn't cause the U.S. to enter WW I, it only helped to increase anti-German feelings. As bad as it was, it really isn't a major part of history.

The 9/11 attacks weren't by a foreign power in the usual sense of the term - they weren't made by a foreign government or its military. What made them shocking was their size and effectiveness compared to other terrorist attacks.
 

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JamesWhitehead

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how many other film line Mandelas result from the same cause?
From time to time people will insist that a film's soundtrack score has been switched. Sometimes they are just confused but it does happen. Trailers and promotional shorts were often put out with temporary or place-holder scores, usually derived from similar titles in the studio's portfolio. If all else failed, it was Orff's Carmina Burana, which seemed to be the model for so many chanty, driven action/fantasy scores.

Many films from the seventies dropped off the map on home media beause their needle-drop or juke-box soundtracks had been licenced only for cinema exhibition. Renegotiation with the music companies often proved more expensive than recording a new music-track with other songs and/or performers. Antonioni's Zabriskie Point springs to mind, as does Haskell Wexler's Medium Cool. :cooll:
 

ChasFink

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Many films from the seventies dropped off the map on home media beause their needle-drop or juke-box soundtracks had been licenced only for cinema exhibition. Renegotiation with the music companies often proved more expensive than recording a new music-track with other songs and/or performers. Antonioni's Zabriskie Point springs to mind, as does Haskell Wexler's Medium Cool. :cooll:
There was also Michael Radford's 1984 film of 1984 - which had two different scores composed for it, and was released in cinemas and home video in various configurations of the two.

I get quite annoyed whenever I see the horror comedy sequel Dr. Phibes Rises Again on TV these days, as it always has orchestral music at the end. When I first saw it, the soundtrack had Vincent Price's title character singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow, which had me in stitches.

We should also remember that the standard TV and theatrical cuts of films may differ. I once read a customer review of the DVD of Repo Man which complained that an important scene was omitted. What the reviewer failed to realize is that the scene was never in the theatrical version, but only the TV cut (as evidenced by the Criterion Collection edition, which includes both versions).
 

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There was also Michael Radford's 1984 film of 1984 - which had two different scores composed for it, and was released in cinemas and home video in various configurations of the two.

I get quite annoyed whenever I see the horror comedy sequel Dr. Phibes Rises Again on TV these days, as it always has orchestral music at the end. When I first saw it, the soundtrack had Vincent Price's title character singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow, which had me in stitches.

We should also remember that the standard TV and theatrical cuts of films may differ. I once read a customer review of the DVD of Repo Man which complained that an important scene was omitted. What the reviewer failed to realize is that the scene was never in the theatrical version, but only the TV cut (as evidenced by the Criterion Collection edition, which includes both versions).
The TV cut of Repo Man (the cinematic version is one of my top films) also introduced me to the euphemistic swearing of 'melon farmer', as in 'flip you, melon farmer!'. Ludicrous, but somehow in keeping with the film itself...
 

Bad Bungle

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Toby Maguire did capture a helicopter in a web spun across the Twin Towers didn't he ? It was the one scene in the trailer that nearly made me watch the film.


spiderman01.jpg
 

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Toby Maguire did capture a helicopter in a web spun across the Twin Towers didn't he ? It was the one scene in the trailer that nearly made me watch the film.


View attachment 19889
Yes, it's a shame they decided to cut that scene. I wonder why? Anyway, that reminds me I have to visit an office in tower 2 next week.

What? When did that happen? I have no memory of that.
 
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