The Roswell Incident [1947]

Supposing the government(s) US and or others knew the aliens were real and that their technology was way, way ahead of ours.

Further suppose that said governments knew that they had no say over the alien’s agenda, show themselves or not, abduct people or something we don’t even understand. They may or may not have some sort of contact with these beings and may be learning some of their tech. (after all just knowing something is possible can spur research)

Would faking a crash be a good way to re assure the population that the aliens weren’t all powerful? Government says a saucer crashed, then cover it up but leave enough clues so that if the aliens show themselves tomorrow and people panic about their tech the Government can alter their; “There are no aliens” and say instead “Hey look they are fallible, they did crash at Roswell.”

The aliens, if they cared, could deny it but like any political story rumours and fake news stick.

OK nutty theory but then so are quite a few others around Roswell.
 
Buried in UFO lore is Apollo 18 to secretly land near a crashed UFO.

I don’t know ?
 
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The genius Nikola Tesla said, "Most certainly, some planets are not inhabited, but others are, and among these there must exist life under all conditions and phases of development."
 
Probably not realized by most but the Pentagon did not try to issue a classified mandated annual UFO report to the Congress and an unclassified report to the public

What is everyone afraid of, that we are not alone ?
 
I think most of any fear comes from governments. They like having populations that are fearful as it gives them excuses to act in a more draconian manner than would usually be acceptable. However it has to be a threat that they are seen as being able to cope with providing everyone behaves. Don’t use too much energy, conserve water because we couldn’t be arsed to build enough reservoirs, nation X is a huge threat but we are spending money better used on hospitals to counter it, etc.

A very powerful alien force with unknown motives is something they can’t be seen to control, in fact they may not even be able to explain or even understand the alien’s motives and it may be obvious that they have no power over it. If they chose to reveal themselves it would be pretty obvious to anyone that they could do what they liked with humanity. IMHO Governments will want to cover that up and perhaps have some stories concocted to make them look as if they have been “working hard for our good” all the time they knew the truth.
 
Given that Kevin Randle's apparent 'readiness to give up on' Roswell kick started this thread, I was interested to see that he's recently posted arguing that the debris couldn't possibly have been Mogul balloon train number 4:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2022/11/mogul-flight-no-4-end.html

...and once more we're back into the usual stuff of people (years after the event) remembering a 'gouge' in the ground etc. I expect ufologists will keep going round in circles on this one indefinitely.

Personally I can't imagine that the lightweight (tinfoil and sticks) material described by Marcel could have made any kind of 'gouge', no matter how unearthly its properties.
 
charliebrown said:
Probably not realized by most but the Pentagon did not try to issue a classified mandated annual UFO report to the Congress and an unclassified report to the public

What is everyone afraid of, that we are not alone ?
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Tunn11 said:
I think most of any fear comes from governments. They like having populations that are fearful as it gives them excuses to act in a more draconian manner than would usually be acceptable. However it has to be a threat that they are seen as being able to cope with providing everyone behaves. Don’t use too much energy, conserve water because we couldn’t be arsed to build enough reservoirs, nation X is a huge threat but we are spending money better used on hospitals to counter it, etc.

A very powerful alien force with unknown motives is something they can’t be seen to control, in fact they may not even be able to explain or even understand the alien’s motives and it may be obvious that they have no power over it. If they chose to reveal themselves it would be pretty obvious to anyone that they could do what they liked with humanity. IMHO Governments will want to cover that up and perhaps have some stories concocted to make them look as if they have been “working hard for our good” all the time they knew the truth.
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You hit the nail on the head, some of our Presidents have publicly stated that they are 'unable to obtain any information' on the UFO's continually seen in our skies.
 
Roswell will not die while there is good money to be made writing books and cruising the lecture circuit.
 
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BS3 said:
Given that Kevin Randle's apparent 'readiness to give up on' Roswell kick started this thread, I was interested to see that he's recently posted arguing that the debris couldn't possibly have been Mogul balloon train number 4:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2022/11/mogul-flight-no-4-end.html

...and once more we're back into the usual stuff of people (years after the event) remembering a 'gouge' in the ground etc. I expect ufologists will keep going round in circles on this one indefinitely.

Personally I can't imagine that the lightweight (tinfoil and sticks) material described by Marcel could have made any kind of 'gouge', no matter how unearthly its properties.
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I can't imagine that the lightweight (tinfoil and sticks) material described by Marcel could have made any kind of 'gouge', no matter how unearthly its properties. "Exactly!"
 
Sid said:
I can't imagine that the lightweight (tinfoil and sticks) material described by Marcel could have made any kind of 'gouge', no matter how unearthly its properties. "Exactly!"
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Must depend on the speed, bits of straw have been driven into tree trunks during storms (Or is that an urban legend?) If it was going at a hell of a lick it may have made some sort of impression. However no one IIRC said that they had found any sort of propulsion system, surely that had a bit more mass?
 
BS3 said:
Personally I can't imagine that the lightweight (tinfoil and sticks) material described by Marcel could have made any kind of 'gouge', no matter how unearthly its properties.
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And that's the problem - Marcel also stated that this 'foil' was unable to be burned, or cut, and upon crumbling a piece of it into a ball it would simply straighten itself right out.
So we have no idea what this 'foil' actually is - but we know that it cannot simply be 'foil', it is a material beyond our comprehension, and its' capabilities are unknown to us.
 
Marcel also stated that the material in the photos is the same as the material he recovered; and the photos self-evidently show Mogul balloon debris, so he must be mistaken in at least one of his statements.

There is no record of anyone describing the material as unbreakable at the time, but plenty of people have made this description in more recent years. Joe Nickell has suggested that these witnesses are describing later debris from aluminised polythene balloons, which were first made in the 1950s and may have been found in the desert at various times over the subsequent decades.
https://skepticalinquirer.org/newsletter/roswell-ufo-strange-metal-mystery/

I'm not sure Joe Nickell is correct, but I have heard accounts of people in the Roswell area encountering small scraps of 'unbreakable' material in later years - material which could have come from later balloons made from materials such as metallized polyester (mylar). Lots of later tales and confabulations appear to have become enfolded into the Roswell mythology.
 
To add intrigue to the skin of the Roswell crash UFO ship, President Truman asked Wernher von Braun to check out the crash.

Von Braun supposedly reported the skin of the crashed craft was organic and living.

Von Braun supposedly was shocked that the inside of the ship had no instrumentation but small seats for the occupants to mentally join with the ship.

Many years later Bob Lazar also said he was also shocked by the lack of instrumentation in the crashed UFOs at Area 51.
 
Von Braun never had anything to do with the Roswell crash, as I've pointed out before. This is all just a tall story invented by Clark McClelland, a minor NASA contractor who may have spoken to von Braun once or twice (although even this seems doubtful).

How likely is it that von Braun told this astonishing secret to McClelland, someone he barely knew, and to no-one else ever?
 
I started reading through this 'Crash At Corona' excerpt from Stanton Friedman's book

"1992: Roswell Witness Testimonies"​

And this witness testimony, from the people who were actually there from the very beginning, when Mac Brazel came across the puzzling debris field - family members, neighbors, friends - is very interesting and compelling.

I hadn't heard some of this information before, if you have a few minutes it's an informative read:

https://www.thinkaboutitdocs.com/roswell-witness-testimonies/
 
Major Jesse Marcel stating he had to go along with the photograph (it's a short), and how he had to keep his mouth shut:

 
Since covid is over, Roswell is pushing for a big Roswell UFO Crash Festival starting June 30, 2023.

I don’t think Roswell is forgotten !
 
The "he-said, she-said" aspects of the unusual tire me out. People can and do lie without any expectation of practical gain. They may enjoy fooling others, or they may not be able to discern truth from fabrication. Governments may practice obscurantism for a variety of practical reasons, or for the selfish desires of people in positions of power.

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However, the scientific and technical aspects of the subject fascinate me, especially when it comes to edge cases and situations where common human assumptions may not hold up. For example, there is no reason why beings possessing super-human technology could not experience a crash or other incredibly banal technical failure.

No technology can ever be made absolutely fail-safe. The energies needed for practical interstellar or inter-universal travel likely would be enormous, increasing the risks of catastrophic failure.

We humans don't really know what the non-human traffic is like in our neighborhood. We don't detect any officially confirmed contacts, so the traffic could be zero; or there could be a hyperspace bypass running through the solar system. Regular, if mostly short, visits by vast numbers of cloaked vessels would imply a certain number of crashes occurring on an equally regular basis just from mundane engine failures.

Nonhuman cultures may tolerate risks that no human culture would find acceptable. Cheaply built high technology could fail at incredibly high rates.

Finally, some of the hypothetical nonhumans operating superior technology near Earth may be less than fully competent. Some may be children, playing with toy drones or go-cart equivalents. Some may be senescent individually, or from a culture that has entered a dark age, and no longer understands the technology it still tries to use. Some may be high-technology analogues to drunk anglers taking the boat out for the weekend.
 
If these extraterrestrials are part of a culture which relies heavily on hyper-competent AIs to perform almost all of the tasks required to maintain their civilisation, they may well be decadent, childish, impulsive and even careless. This could explain the 42 different crashes reported in 1947 alone, as listed in this post (from earlier in this thread).
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/is-roswell-finally-dead.64180/page-3#post-2066439

This may be a cautionary tale; humans might end up reliant on AIs too, and forget how to behave responsibly, in the future.
 
Aether Blue said:
The "he-said, she-said" aspects of the unusual tire me out. People can and do lie without any expectation of practical gain. They may enjoy fooling others, or they may not be able to discern truth from fabrication. Governments may practice obscurantism for a variety of practical reasons, or for the selfish desires of people in positions of power.

__________________________________________________________________________

However, the scientific and technical aspects of the subject fascinate me, especially when it comes to edge cases and situations where common human assumptions may not hold up. For example, there is no reason why beings possessing super-human technology could not experience a crash or other incredibly banal technical failure.

No technology can ever be made absolutely fail-safe. The energies needed for practical interstellar or inter-universal travel likely would be enormous, increasing the risks of catastrophic failure.

We humans don't really know what the non-human traffic is like in our neighborhood. We don't detect any officially confirmed contacts, so the traffic could be zero; or there could be a hyperspace bypass running through the solar system. Regular, if mostly short, visits by vast numbers of cloaked vessels would imply a certain number of crashes occurring on an equally regular basis just from mundane engine failures.

Nonhuman cultures may tolerate risks that no human culture would find acceptable. Cheaply built high technology could fail at incredibly high rates.

Finally, some of the hypothetical nonhumans operating superior technology near Earth may be less than fully competent. Some may be children, playing with toy drones or go-cart equivalents. Some may be senescent individually, or from a culture that has entered a dark age, and no longer understands the technology it still tries to use. Some may be high-technology analogues to drunk anglers taking the boat out for the weekend.
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Some clever ideas there but there is one idea that I think is far more relevant. It stems from the fact that after the end of WW2 the US acquired a lot of information and equipment relating to Nazi secret weapons programmes. They were also experimenting with anti gravity technology derived from the Biefield-Brown effect. I think the "alien visitors" idea was used as the perfect cover story -- and still is. Nobody has ever explained one bizarre effort at disinformation that actually proves that a cover up was being operated -- the call to a local undertaker to ask for child sized coffins. The US military had plenty of boxes and in any case could have put any recovered aliens into normal sized coffins. The only reason for such a request was to plant the idea of "small alien bodies" in the local consciousness. It may even be that they had the idea for an "alien invasion" as a cover story even before they started their experiments.
 
eburacum said:
[This may be a cautionary tale; humans might end up reliant on AIs too, and forget how to behave responsibly, in the future.]
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Responsibility has been a tad ill fated in the past - AI might be able to teach us a thing or two ~ if 'it' learns what being responsible really means. Apparently, 'Humans' have tended to distort it, avoided it, or completely white-washed it in some past historic events!
 
Forget the Biefield-Brown effect; it is tiny, and absolutely useless as a lifting effect because the thrust-to-weight ratio is less than one unless you connect it to an external power source.

If we could find a power source that could provide fabulous amounts of power for very little mass penalty, the BBE might be useful; but if we had a power source like that, we could do a very wide range of other miracles that would make the tiny Biefield-Brown effect a triviality.
 
eburacum said:
Forget the Biefield-Brown effect; it is tiny, and absolutely useless as a lifting effect because the thrust-to-weight ratio is less than one unless you connect it to an external power source.

If we could find a power source that could provide fabulous amounts of power for very little mass penalty, the BBE might be useful; but if we had a power source like that, we could do a very wide range of other miracles that would make the tiny Biefield-Brown effect a triviality.
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Not that far away according to this. . . https://www.sciencefocus.com/future-technology/fusion-power-future/
But would the big Oil and Gas industries allow it to proceed I wonder?
 
Currently (hah!) fusion power generators need to be very massive. If we built a BBE lifter powered by a fusion generator it would need to be bigger than the Titanic and mostly made of tinfoil.

Interesting idea - maybe one day.
 
eburacum said:
If these extraterrestrials are part of a culture which relies heavily on hyper-competent AIs to perform almost all of the tasks required to maintain their civilisation, they may well be decadent, childish, impulsive and even careless. This could explain the 42 different crashes reported in 1947 alone, as listed in this post (from earlier in this thread).
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/is-roswell-finally-dead.64180/page-3#post-2066439
Click to expand...

Perhaps if these craft are piloted by aliens or by alien built robots/clones, they might crash here because they got into mechanical trouble in space whilst en route to somewhere else?
They use us for a planned crash landing?
They are (relatively) nearby at the time they get into trouble, and believe our planet offers a reasonable chance of survival and ability to repair the craft, or have a rescue mission?
 
Victory said:
Perhaps if these craft are piloted by aliens or by alien built robots/clones, they might crash here because they got into mechanical trouble in space whilst en route to somewhere else?
They use us for a planned crash landing?
They are (relatively) nearby at the time they get into trouble, and believe our planet offers a reasonable chance of survival and ability to repair the craft, or have a rescue mission?
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They've probably just got lost in the expanse of space and time, and end up out of fuel and crash out here!
 
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