The Abolition Of Cash

[kesavaross]

What his of great concern for me is a cashless society means the government could, if they chose to, have total control over everything we do. Also, what if there was a massive cyber attack?

 

[Mythopoeika]

What his of great concern for me is a cashless society means the government could, if they chose to, have total control over everything we do. Also, what if there was a massive cyber attack?

The thing I fear is programmable currency. A form of digital currency where its value is time-limited and you have to spend it by a certain date.
With such a system, nobody can save money and we'd all be slaves.

 

[kesavaross]

The thing I fear is programmable currency. A form of digital currency where its value is time-limited and you have to spend it by a certain date.
With such a system, nobody can save money and we'd all be slaves.

Mix in with that their idea to give each person a certain number of carbon credits each week...

 

[Frideswide]

With such a system, nobody can save money and we'd all be slaves.

Invest in eg art and resell when needed?

 

[Analogue Boy]

Invest in eg art and resell when needed?

Yes. Like gold art. You could invest in little gold and silver discs with engraved pictures on and a number to remind you how much you paid for it.
If you bought enough, I’m sure someone would set up like a little company that would keep it safe for you.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Remember. You heard it here first.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Invest in eg art and resell when needed?

That is possible, perhaps. But the works of art that really retain their value have a cost out of my reach. Cost of entry into such an investment portfolio would be high.

Edit: I do have a small collection of SF book cover art and a few Hunt Emerson cartoons.
I was looking at some Ian Miller drawings earlier, thinking of buying.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Yes. Like gold art. You could invest in little gold and silver discs with engraved pictures on and a number to remind you how much you paid for it.
If you bought enough, I’m sure someone would set up like a little company that would keep it safe for you.

Some countries make owning gold illegal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execu...n gold ownership,of Congress, codified in Pub.

 

[Cochise]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That's 50 Christmas presents you owe me now and your undying support.

Ok, Ok. I should never have danced with her to 'Nights in White Satin'. And I did love her. Guilty as charged.

All of you on here have my undying support, including those whose views I disagree with.

 

[brownmane]

A Cashless society's main aim is to distance people from actually having the money you've earned in your hand and understanding how much of your time has been put into earning it vs how quickly it disappears when it's spent.

I have read that the ability to physically handle your money does help people to put the cost of something they want or need into perspective. When there is nothing in your hand, you stop spending.

When only accessing funds electronically, the conscious decision to determine if something is worth the expense is gone. You spend more and don't realize that it may be beyond what you can afford according to your means. Ask anyone who has done online shopping.

Cashless certainly does put our money beyond our control. Third parties and, technology that is not always problem free, ransomware, you name it. I could get mugged with cash in hand, but it's not my whole savings.

 

[brownmane]

And of course governments say that it prevents nefarious crimes, but since when were criminals never able to figure out ways around technology?

 

[Frideswide]

Ok, Ok. I should never have danced with her to 'Nights in White Satin'. And I did love her. Guilty as charged.

All of you on here have my undying support, including those whose views I disagree with.

back at you!

 

[Swifty]

The thing I fear is programmable currency. A form of digital currency where its value is time-limited and you have to spend it by a certain date.
With such a system, nobody can save money and we'd all be slaves.

I suppose this isn't anything new, mistrust in money handlers .. it's why detectorists still find buried jars full of ancient coins, some more recent oldies hid money under the mattress or in biscuit tins and so on and so on. Someone always wants your money since the concept of money was invented don't they.

We'll all have to revert to bartering again. I've been doing that and it's covering most of my Christmas expenditure so far. 'They' can't tax bartering.

 

[Stormkhan]

I've done my bit - at a couple of markets and events, we swapped our dog treats for other traders products - like 2lb of ostritch bugers once.

 

[Stormkhan]

I suppose this isn't anything new, mistrust in money handlers ...

I think in this decade, there's an increase of mistrust with anyone.
The internet has created more sources of information - true and false; easy platform for those with views that might be ignored or mocked; more awareness of available technology for trickery etc. The current chest-beating over AI is just adding to this.
Soon, people will actually see a major incident ... and think it was all an act.
"You call that blood? You get it more realistic in horror movies!"

 

[PeteS]

I think in this decade, there's an increase of mistrust with anyone.
The internet has created more sources of information - true and false; easy platform for those with views that might be ignored or mocked; more awareness of available technology for trickery etc. The current chest-beating over AI is just adding to this.
Soon, people will actually see a major incident ... and think it was all an act.
"You call that blood? You get it more realistic in horror movies!"

Sometimes mistrust is not without foundation. Dealing with an estate I lost patience with a bank who were holding up completion by ignoring correspondence. I managed to get through to the ceo's office who informed me that the reason for the delay was that the branch I had been writing to had closed years ago. This was put in writing to me. It was a blatant lie, the branch had never closed and still exists today. I have had other instances of similar untruths from many organizations to the point where I check "facts" that are put to me. Doesn't stress me out anymore but one wonders how these places get from day to day- must be by default.

 

[Stormkhan]

As they say, even a stopped clock is right at least twice. Cases of dishonesty in some doesn't prove dishonesty in all. "I met an X once and they were utterly evil. So, obviously, all X are evil!"

 

[Robbrent]

I think there is a kind of paranoid vanity in some people, the population of the UK is over 67 million 12.4 million of them are children, why would anyone one to track anyone of them except is they were suspected of criminal activity other than that they are not that interested in individuals, the shops use the data for lots of reasons and most of it is anonymous, if I pay by card the business claims the money from my bank account they don't have open access to all my details nor is there an individual record of what I have purchased (unless I have used a loyalty card)

 

[Stormkhan]

No one likes to think of themselves as inconsequential.

 

[Robbrent]

No one likes to think of themselves as inconsequential.

I get that, but as individuals we really are not that important and our day to day activities are only considered as part of a whole i.e so many middle aged blokes bought widgets in 2023 besides the fact no one has the time to deal with the day to day lives of individuals who are just getting on with their lives as best they can

 

[Mythopoeika]

I think there is a kind of paranoid vanity in some people, the population of the UK is over 67 million 12.4 million of them are children, why would anyone one to track anyone of them except is they were suspected of criminal activity other than that they are not that interested in individuals, the shops use the data for lots of reasons and most of it is anonymous, if I pay by card the business claims the money from my bank account they don't have open access to all my details nor is there an individual record of what I have purchased (unless I have used a loyalty card)

You assume that it's baseless paranoia and should thus be ignored.
However, it may also be seen as a state of preparedness - i.e., working out what type of problems may lie ahead and being ready for them.
Suppose someone dismisses a conspiracy theory and then it turns out to be right? That person may come to regret not being prepared.

 

[Stormkhan]

Preparing for an event or situation that is supposed to happen?
I'm not saying to ignore a supposition but to challenge it.
Preparing for something that is unlikely to happen is wasted effort. Being prepared for something that, really unlikely, will happen isn't being prepared. It's misdirection of effort!
We ALL do "What if ..." thoughts. Really. But there has to be an interaction with reality, not just possibility.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.
That’s a good general rule, along with continual risk assessment and rolling the dice on various scenarios on possible - as well as unlikely outcomes.
In emergency situations, it’s sometimes not the rationality of continuing services or the reliability of reasonable supply. Society can, in an hour, go completely crazy, emptying supermarkets, petrol stations etc. and you’re left with a split carrier bag holding a tin of peas and a packet of Handy Andies because all the pasta and loo roll’s gone.
Common sense and reason are no protection against crowd action and what its perception can lead it to. I thought 2020 had demonstrated that quite clearly.

 

[hunck]

The reality is, most everyone is pretty powerless if shit hits fan as imagined by some here. Suppose that as well as the electronic banking system being severely curtailed, cash withdrawals also are. Do you think one would happen without the other? You’d be queueing at the cashpoint in a long line for your fifty quid.

Unless you have a large wad of cash in your house you’d be pretty soon just as fucked as everyone else. If you do have a large wad of cash in your house, better keep quiet about it or someone will take it off you, but it might keep you going for a few months if you stay lucky. Pretty soon you’d be in the same position as pretty much everyone else.

Better start storing up the cash now..

Personally it’s not something I’m going to worry about, & I don’t think cash is going to be abolished any time soon although I’m sure there’s some who’d be in favour. Probably in the banking sector. What happens to those without a bank account? Looking it up, seems it’s around 1.1 million adults, 2.1% of the adult population.

 

[Sollywos]

I like to have decided in advance what my response would be to various scenarios. So for instance during the cold war when my children were young myself and friends were worried. We didn't think 'protect and survive' as per the booklets we'd all been given years earlier, was a viable option. But to relieve the anxiety we planned, on getting the four minute warning, to race up the hill behind our house watch all the giant fireworks going off in nearby London, Aldermaston and Greenham etc then lay back and get it full frontal! Just having a plan meant we could deal with the possibility while hoping that it wouldn't happen!
I've lived through enough short term shortages to know it's a good idea to keep reasonable stocks of stuff but if there was a total societal collapse I'd prefer not to survive. Easy to say as I'm old but I think that's what I'd feel even if I was younger. There again the survival instinct might kick in. sigh.

 

[PeteS]

I think there is a kind of paranoid vanity in some people, the population of the UK is over 67 million 12.4 million of them are children, why would anyone one to track anyone of them except is they were suspected of criminal activity other than that they are not that interested in individuals, the shops use the data for lots of reasons and most of it is anonymous, if I pay by card the business claims the money from my bank account they don't have open access to all my details nor is there an individual record of what I have purchased (unless I have used a loyalty card)

That became apparent a few years ago when a supermarket decided to collate information on individual customers' purchases. They finally admitted that there was too much information to handle and it wasn't really any use anyway. I suspect much of the information gathered in these type of exercises is a waste of time and expense.

 

[Stormkhan]

Let's not forget that giant supermarket chains are also influenced by 'consultants', who get paid to trot out some management-speak babble and persuade the bosses to spend on their ideas.
In PeteS' example above, the bosses were probably told by an expensive 'consultant' that gathering data would increase profits.

 

[Robbrent]

Let's not forget that giant supermarket chains are also influenced by 'consultants', who get paid to trot out some management-speak babble and persuade the bosses to spend on their ideas.
In PeteS' example above, the bosses were probably told by an expensive 'consultant' that gathering data would increase profits.

You can see the benefit on a macro level i.e we sell more pork pies on a Saturday so better make sure we have lots of pies in stock that sort of thing

 

[Stormkhan]

You get that anyway - it's really obvious 'round our way in Tesco like kindling/coal in winter, bulbs & compost in spring, and especially portable BBQ's in summer.

 

[brownmane]

if there was a total societal collapse I'd prefer not to survive. Easy to say as I'm old but I think that's what I'd feel even if I was younger. There again the survival instinct might kick in. sigh.

I grew up in the 70's so the threat of "the big one" was constantly (to me) discussed in media.

I totally decided that if there was something like an atomic bomb event, I would not be the one to run to a "safe" place. After all, I might be alive, but I would still have an afterwards with what? I decided that I would sit on a rooftop and watch the devastation come in.

The older I grow, this hasn't really changed. I'm just much more realistic about outcome. Would I survive a total societal collapse? Most likely not. I don't have the skills. I know a few edible wild plants and some poisonous plants, but can't even start a fire.

People born in later years have even fewer survival skills.