The Pyramids Of Giza

MrRING

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I had heard that after a few months of political disfavour he had been reinstated. The worst I've heard is that his ego will not allow him to tolerate others making discoveries. I think he has held back egyptology enormously.
Well, he's no longer the Minister of State for Antiquities Affairs, as that former exhalted post is now held by Khaled El-Anany. Hawass was fired in 2011 as best I can tell.
 

kesavaross

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I cannot work out from the link if it's logbook or logbooks, or document or documents.

One picture of fragments. Are there more pictures? It doesn't say. And some bloke leading a team of 200 men? Is that all?

What's telling about the article is not what it does say, but instead what it doesn't and the information given hardly amounts to being called a 'logbook' and no mention of how the pyramids were built or how those massive stone blocks were created so accurately, how they were moved and moved into place so accurately.

I don't know the answer and I have no theories but it's as plain as day that it is not the answers we have been given.

As far as I know no evidence of any burials have even been found in the pyramids. So why were the pyramids built?

The link given.

https://www.livescience.com/55439-ancient-logbook-on-great-pyramid-unveiled.html
 
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Jim

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I've heard so many bad things about this guy.
Zahi Hawass has been given accolades for Egyptology, yet he is blind to any evidence that doesn't toe the line with the century old belief that the pyramids, Sphinx, etc are all much newer than they likely are especially with the Sphinx being proven to be at least as old as the end of the last ice age by its geology and weathering. Showing signs of water erosion which existed long before Egypt was a desert. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...och (1992a, 199213,and the type of weathering.
 

Floyd1

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Zahi Hawass has been given accolades for Egyptology, yet he is blind to any evidence that doesn't toe the line with the century old belief that the pyramids, Sphinx, etc are all much newer than they likely are especially with the Sphinx being proven to be at least as old as the end of the last ice age by its geology and weathering. Showing signs of water erosion which existed long before Egypt was a desert. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/gea.3340100203#:~:text=WEATHERING FEATURES AND THE AGE OF THE SPHINX&text=However, Schoch (1992a, 199213,and the type of weathering.
To be fair to Hawass, that is considered pseudoarchaeology by most other archaeologists though.
 

SimonBurchell

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The ... average weight of the stones in the Giza pyramid is only 2.3 tons. Ramps, sleds and enough blokes on ropes: no problem.

maximus otter
Additionally, the Egyptians had draft animals which undoubtedly helped.
 
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Floyd1

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Additionally, the Egyptians had draft animals which undoubtedly helped.
I still wouldn't want to shift these though- in flip flops;
giza.jpg
 

Jim

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Floyd1

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I don't believe Hawass believes anything that rocks the century old viewpoint on Egyptology, in other words he refuses to review new accurate scientific data, this guys an Egyptology nightmare..
https://www.encyclopedia.com/scienc...ogists-think-based-recent-geological-evidence

The following video was made by world renowned geologist Robert Schoch.

Agreed. He's not exactly open minded. Interesting video, cheers.
Another problem I have is the logistics of food, water, clothing, tools etc for hundreds, if not thousands of people. The communication aspects alone are staggering. Also that they only used copper chisels. Add in all the injuries, diseases and ailments that many would have suffered and it just seems impossible that it could have been done the way we're told it was.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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I still wouldn't want to shift these though- in flip flops;
View attachment 56292
Is that you climbing those huge boulders, Floyd?
I recall my Dad saying that it would take all day to climb the Great Pyramid, and looking at the sheer size of those boulders, the work involved in cutting them, transporting them, lifting them, and then putting them into place just doesn't seem possible.
 

Pretty Pete

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Is that you climbing those huge boulders, Floyd?
I recall my Dad saying that it would take all day to climb the Great Pyramid, and looking at the sheer size of those boulders, the work involved in cutting them, transporting them, lifting them, and then putting them into place just doesn't seem possible.
But that is the great thing about us ( humankind) we can do the impossible when we put our mind to it.
 

Floyd1

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Is that you climbing those huge boulders, Floyd?
I recall my Dad saying that it would take all day to climb the Great Pyramid, and looking at the sheer size of those boulders, the work involved in cutting them, transporting them, lifting them, and then putting them into place just doesn't seem possible.
It is. And I'm 6' 2'' to give you some scale.
 

Ascalon

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I recall seeing some artefacts that were found at Giza that looked like circle segments (think of a an orange segment). These were measured to be roughly the same size as the width measurment of a great pyramid block.

The idea was that these wooden circle segments were lashed around the blocks, effectively making them rollers. Ropes were wound around them, think of a captsan on its side, and that allowed small teams to roll them with much reduced effort.

This method has been suggested many times, but with the identification of these long known though litte understood artefeacts, it would lend credence to the theory. It is a similar method to one described here that uses round dowels to crudely make the same effect.

Screen%2BShot%2B2014-08-22%2Bat%2B12.14.30%2BPM.png


This kind of method, in combination with the highly organised work gangs, as evidenced in the papyrus finds, would account for the apparent speed and ease with which blocks were moved and placed.

Here's another description of the method.
 

Ascalon

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SimonBurchell

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Yeah, there are also finds that suggest animal fat, mostly from cows, was used too. There seem to ahve been a few different methods combined to great effect.
The image in the article just shows a jar - it could well have been a jar of animal fat, not water, unless accompanying hieroglyphic text suggests otherwise.
 

Floyd1

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I recall seeing some artefacts that were found at Giza that looked like circle segments (think of a an orange segment). These were measured to be roughly the same size as the width measurment of a great pyramid block.

The idea was that these wooden circle segments were lashed around the blocks, effectively making them rollers. Ropes were wound around them, think of a captsan on its side, and that allowed small teams to roll them with much reduced effort.

This method has been suggested many times, but with the identification of these long known though litte understood artefeacts, it would lend credence to the theory. It is a similar method to one described here that uses round dowels to crudely make the same effect.

Screen%2BShot%2B2014-08-22%2Bat%2B12.14.30%2BPM.png


This kind of method, in combination with the highly organised work gangs, as evidenced in the papyrus finds, would account for the apparent speed and ease with which blocks were moved and placed.

Here's another description of the method.
But, again, how many trees were needed to support such a vast workforce? I don't mean just for this example, but all the other things as well; boats/ropes/houses/huts/carts/dates...... Also, to build earth/sand ramps up the sides of the pyramid (as we're often told they did) would mean the ramps would have taken as much, if not more effort that building the actual pyramid itself.
 

Ascalon

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But, again, how many trees were needed to support such a vast workforce? I don't mean just for this example, but all the other things as well; boats/ropes/houses/huts/carts/dates...... Also, to build earth/sand ramps up the sides of the pyramid (as we're often told they did) would mean the ramps would have taken as much, if not more effort that building the actual pyramid itself.
AFAIK, there's no need of ramps with this roller method. The step design of the half finished pyramid would have allowed the blocks to effectively lift and roll up the stepped formations. There are also finds in relation to rope pulleys and hoists, along with moveable A-frames, with mechnical advantage of 2.5 and upwards. Essentially, they hypothesise that tight crews of 10-12 could move these 2.5 tonne blocks up a step in minutes.
 

Jim

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Is that you climbing those huge boulders, Floyd?
I recall my Dad saying that it would take all day to climb the Great Pyramid, and looking at the sheer size of those boulders, the work involved in cutting them, transporting them, lifting them, and then putting them into place just doesn't seem possible.
Never under estamate human infinity and effort. I'm sure they had a degree of mathematical and engineering skill. Perhaps some were lost or still await in the earth to be yet revealed. Also the time factor who says it was done in a heartbeat. Likely took a generation or generations to complete these engineering marvels.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Never under estamate human infinity and effort. I'm sure they had a degree of mathematical and engineering skill. Perhaps some were lost or still await in the earth to be yet revealed. Also the time factor who says it was done in a heartbeat. Likely took a generation or generations to complete these engineering marvels.
I am not underestimating them, I am simply amazed.
 

MrRING

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There was a documentary on the Moai statues on Rapa Nui aka Easter Island. The story that was said about the Moai by natives of the time was that they walked into place, which was scoffed at for hundreds of years. However, modern scientists and engineers realized within the last 10 years or so that with existing rope technologies, the statues could be angled and "walked" into place with many less people than previously believed, and they went as far as making a faux statue and walking it. If you've ever moved something heavy, you would have experienced the priciple involved - a heavy load angled on it's edge is much lighter to move around.

My guess is that the pyramids may have used a similar angled movement on the stones with ropes tied in sprcific ways that would accomplish the movement needed to manuever the stones without anything spectacular to build them.
 

MrRING

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There was a documentary on the Moai statues on Rapa Nui aka Easter Island. The story that was said about the Moai by natives of the time was that they walked into place, which was scoffed at for hundreds of years. However, modern scientists and engineers realized within the last 10 years or so that with existing rope technologies, the statues could be angled and "walked" into place with many less people than previously believed, and they went as far as making a faux statue and walking it. If you've ever moved something heavy, you would have experienced the priciple involved - a heavy load angled on it's edge is much lighter to move around.

My guess is that the pyramids may have used a similar angled movement on the stones with ropes tied in sprcific ways that would accomplish the movement needed to manuever the stones without anything spectacular to build them.
Here is some video:
 

Mythopoeika

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There was a documentary on the Moai statues on Rapa Nui aka Easter Island. The story that was said about the Moai by natives of the time was that they walked into place, which was scoffed at for hundreds of years. However, modern scientists and engineers realized within the last 10 years or so that with existing rope technologies, the statues could be angled and "walked" into place with many less people than previously believed, and they went as far as making a faux statue and walking it. If you've ever moved something heavy, you would have experienced the priciple involved - a heavy load angled on it's edge is much lighter to move around.
I did such a thing recently, when I was moving a large fridge on my own. It works.
 

Floyd1

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Me and my friend have a plan; we go to Egypt and find Hawaas. I 'accidentally' bump into him and start up a conversation whereby I mention how I think that the pyramids were built by aliens. As he storms off around the corner with a bright red face and steam coming out of his ears, my mate who is walking along 'minding his own business', also 'accidentally' bumps into the 'great one' and after a few minutes conversation with him suggests the very same thing as I did a short while before. Hawass then explodes into a thousand pieces all over Tahrir Square. We have been planning this for about 10 years now, but you can't rush these things.
 

Mythopoeika

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Me and my friend have a plan; we go to Egypt and find Hawaas. I 'accidentally' bump into him and start up a conversation whereby I mention how I think that the pyramids were built by aliens. As he storms off around the corner with a bright red face and steam coming out of his ears, my mate who is walking along 'minding his own business', also 'accidentally' bumps into the 'great one' and after a few minutes conversation with him suggests the very same thing as I did a short while before. Hawass then explodes into a thousand pieces all over Tahrir Square. We have been planning this for about 10 years now, but you can't rush these things.
I think he may be sufficiently wealthy that he gets driven about by a chauffeur.
 
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